Posted by: Family Media | April 7, 2010

IS THE CHURCH KILLING THE REFORM DEAL?

Recent debates on the draft constitution have left many Kenyans confused since Churches are giving divergent views on the Proposed Constitution ahead of the referendum.  We have all read the newspapers and even watched on television some church leaders openly making their stand known and even going on ahead to urge their followers to reject the draft constitution. This means that our church leaders are making the decisions for us. But has God given just them the mandate?

The bible tells us that you and I are the church. Thus the Holy Spirit resides in us. Consequently we can make decisions on the draft constitution for ourselves knowing that the Holy Spirit is guiding us.

So should we let our church leaders make decisions for us? Should we follow what they are telling us or should one read and understand the draft and make a wise decision come the referendum day? If not, what is your take?

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Responses

  1. Most of us are faithful to the churches we go to and hold dearly the doctrines we uphold in our Churches and yes its important for the church to state its stand. We should listen to what our church representatives advocate for. Major issues that affect us as humanity have been overlooked by these power hungry, CDF thugs, education fund thieves the list just goes on and on by our so called leaders.

  2. Interesting topic friends but do we have to spiritualize everything. Friends lets remember God has provided an avenue as well as sound mind to choose what works for us from what does not.

    • it is not to spiritualize everything, i think the question should be, do we have to rely on God(spiritual) always or we can make our own way his absence not withstanding? abortion debate is self destructive to those who are asking for it.it not only affect the morals of society but also defines the meaning of life and the distinctiveness of human beings. the state is mandated to look into the needs of the society within the powers delegated to them by the people and not to take away the rights of those who can’t represent themselves. think of a world without God-hell is the atmost defination

  3. kill the shepheards and the sheep will be scattered!
    I cant say i’v read th whole draft constition bt i know there are people, accountable to God, who r looking out 4 th my best intrests and those of others. I can choose 2 listen 2 th secular media, th politicians, my pastor(s) etc. Th secular media has given selective info to th issues eg a court case by NCCK 2 have kadhis courts removed 4rm th current constitution, though valid, has had its ruling postponed 5 times. Changing th draft constitution is near impossible:& very few of our politicians r willing 2 take a stand on anythng tht would put their popularity on the line. Church leaders have a case which many are trying to hush out rather than listen! I wil nt b among those trying 2 hush them out: i’l listen and follow sheepishly! What wil u do?
    If all of us were to lead ourselves it would lead to chaos: we’d b goats and nt sheep.
    Muslims with al due respect might hav been a minority bt now they r not. Hindus, budhists, dini ya musambua etc al hav religious courts. Why nt hav al them in th katiba? Why deleate th clause “religion & state shal b separate” and then go on to entrench th islam religious courts? Smthng scinistor is brewing.
    l’L VOTE NO!

  4. I respect church leadership, but this time around i beg 2 differ.my view is in propotion this constitution solves to a great deal the problems in this country. Why cant they let us pass the constitution them press to improve it a long the way! Its better than what we have and if we say yes we remain better than we are today; if we reject it we wil remain at the same spot we have been on for more than 2 decades. We will be like the children of israel who circled mt. Horeb for a long time. We reject this constitution and the next one we get we reject since another group will hate issues. IN other words we wil never have a constitution that is perfect to everyones stardands. Lets get out of the most pressing problems, then we can build on the constitution.

    • Thanks Ishmael. While I appreciate you wise comments… My fear is that if we allow this constitution to go through we will be throwing the church into great tribulation. You don’t want to imagine what goes on when these guys get into power. Look at what is happening in countries that are under their influence such as Middle East, Nigeria, Liberia among others! To be sincere with you, this constitution is worse than the one we have now. I beg you not to accept anything less. We would rather circle mt. Horeb for the next 20 yrs and finally make it to Canaan than jump from the frying pan to the real fire!

  5. I am with the Church. They are not killing the draft but highlighting very important issues. The constitution will not govern us for a day but even for generations to come, so all things should be settled now. I totally support the Church on this and i will vote a very big NO to the draft

  6. the church’s stand wont affect my decision on the draft constitution.God gave us wisdom for an enough reason,issues that has the church rejecting the draft are partially inclined,for example the kardhi courts,the reality is tht we are of diffrent beliefs n tht we cnt ignore so lets not divide the country on religious margins.by this i simply mean tht kardhi courts shouldnt depict us christians as hardliners tht are opposed to the practices of the other religions thus creating tension in btwn….for me,its a yes for the draft.

  7. I am totally against the draft costituition coz there are many mistakes.
    I am supporting the church coz the church is important in good governanc
    I quote one Bishop who said that……you cant give a patient a poor prescribtion and then then at a later day you give him proper one
    This is risking some one’s life,
    As well if we as kenyans arent careful we will regret at a later date when we have nothing to do
    I SAID A BIG NO

    • I second you Arhtur.And the generations to come likely will be at loggerheads soory to say like the generatoin now not a prophecy but a
      small leak will sink a great ship…!

  8. I don’t think the leaders are correct on this one. This is a decision that each and every one of us makes we must read this document ask the Holy Spirit to guide us. I will study the document the, I shall pray, then vote, I will not influenced by anyone, but by God

    • Jimmy, the Church is not taking a decision for us – that is a creation of the press ;issue is:
      1. the constitiution gives the Doctors the right to terminate life ” if ” the Mothers life is in danger – you know what that means in ” kenya” . God forbids Murder. due to such laws; 1.37million American are killed by Doctors legally and an estimated number illegally = Entire population of Kenya in 14 years!( google abortion facts in usa) . Read Matthew 1 Geneology of Christ – there is Perez son of Tamar by his Grandfather , there is Salmon son Rahab the prostitute, there is Solomon son of Uriah’s wife – whom David killed – suppose God allowed man to kill this illigitimate children would our Lord and Saviour be born?

      2. I have studied a good section of Quran and there is no mention of Kadhi’s court anywhere – there is only SHARIA LAW. As a matter of fact I have no knowledge of any country that has Kadhi’s Courts- including Tanzania which has majority Muslim.(Article 19 (2) of the United Republic of Tanzania’s Constitution (1977) clearly states that worship and propagation of a religion is an individual’s private affair and therefore the state authority shall not involve itself in the affairs and management of religious bodies. Thus, the article establishes the right to freedom of religion and neutrality of the state in religious arrangements. That is why there are no Kadhi’s Courts).Do you want to legitimise Sharia Law?
      3. It is not what the religious leaders are saying BUT what is right for us as a people and a country. Let us vote with our Conscience –

      • I must admit the debate is healthy and everyone has a right to take a position on the constituition.what worries me most is that the face of the church in the media is portraying our God as brutal and unforgiving.The lady Reverend on cross talk yesterday quipped that if the draft constituion is voted in then this natioin is doomed.On the pulpit they tell us if you pray for someone and he passes on that is the will of God ,what’s different if the constituition is voted in isn’t there some will of God in it.,I’m voting yes because;
        -For once since independence 15% of the national resouces will reach my village which has been alienated by previous gov’ts.
        -The draft constituion says that abortion is not permited .if you want to interprate other clauses to justify murder it is sin.

  9. Point of correction. The church is not making decisions for us, the church has stated their stand which must be RESPECTED. When other religions or the world air’s their view no one condemns them. Our leaders have a spiritual mandate of giving direction. It is up to every christian then to listen to what the Holy spirit is guiding them towards, if its in sync with the church so be it if it’s not so be it BUT you cannot light your candle and leave it under your beds. I’m proud and support the stand of the church. We are not to conform to the world but be transformed. There’s a common saying that goes”If you dont know where you are going, any road will take you there” where the church is going is where i want to go, the road the rest have taken is dim, its scary, may God protect us from getting there. He who does not even know the mind of God, what then can he guide a whole nation about especially when faith is compromised? Christians, be vigilant and stand for your faith. This document is a document that will govern our land vote wisely, i say.NO, NO NO to the draft.

  10. If my people who are called by my name shall humble themselves,and pray and seek my presence and turn from their wicked ways,then I will listen from Heaven and forgive their sins and restore their land (2 Chronicles 7 : 14 ). This refers to the body of Christ ( church ), we have prayed for this nation and for God prevail in all the decisions made over this nation and I believe a mantle has been passed to us as the body of Christ in answer to our prayers. Kenya is a nation called by God to be the springboard of revival to the world and He cannot work in this nation if there is sin prevailing. We cannot pass a constitution that has a loophole on the abortion clause. Children are a gift from God and we are called to be stewards in everything He gives us. What will we tell God if this loophole is used to kill a generation? We are not the ones to decide who lives and who dies. God’s always present at every birth and He’s all knowing.
    Isaiah 45 : 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
    Romans 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord °, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
    I have called you the Head and not the tail, above and not beneath ( Deut. 28 : 13 ). More evidence that the church has been given the authority to proclaim and decree over everything that happens in their land. Thats why parliament had to agree in unison, not wrestle with the constitution months on end because they are not the voice of God, the church is and what He’s spoken must come to pass. No word ever returns to Him Void.
    Kenya citizens are 80% christian. Why should we acknowledge Sharia law in our constitution and furthermore pay taxes that enable the running of religious institutions that don’t proclaim Jesus is Lord and Saviour. KENYA BELONGS TO JESUS AND HE’S INTERCESSION OVER THIS NATION SHALL NEVER BE IN VAIN!!
    My vote is a NO on this constitution. Thank you for the opportunity to post our views and God bless.

  11. I think we’ve come a long way inorder to reach this stage in constitution building. The constitution is 90% good, so i think we should pass it and do the reforms on the 20% later coz this is our golden opportunity to get a new constitution. Thanks and God Bless kenya.

  12. Yes. The church leaders will greatly influence the way I vote. I differ with the opinion that people can read and apply the proposed constitution individually because they have wisdom from God. If this was the case, then we don’t need churches or priests who read the scripture and interpret and point out applications and relevance for us. In fact, we do not need the media who moderate and highlight issues. We could say, God has given all of us equal abilities so let everyone interpret and live the way they want! Throughout Bible history, there are people appointed by God to lead, and they are opinion leaders in their own right. Among Muslims, the Kadhi is so powerful because it is in their books. Why are the Christian leaders being downgraded? Christians are being urged to be tolerant this time round; how come the Muslims are not being urged to do the same? Why can’t it be a win win situation where Muslims also surrender some of their rights? Already, we have an act of Parliament, where my money is paying Kadhis’s court for a faith I don’t subscribe to. Is this fair? John 14.

  13. church has been the most respected institution on earth. this means that whatever it decides is believed to be from God and therefore has to face no objection from Christians. with this in mind if the draft doesn’t recognize principles of the church doctrine and as a result cause an infringement among the faithfuls, them am obliged to follow church other than inn en political outbursts of which the church has a backing of God but the rest of ideas fall under own/self interests. tell us to vote NO and that’s exactly what we are prone to do this coming June.

  14. I believe that the Church leaders as shepherds have a responsibility to guide the flock. As such, they have a right to speak on our behalf. These are the reasons why:
    1. We elect our earthly leaders and allow them to speak for us. Why not those whose leadership we voluntarily place ourselves under?
    2. Church leaders must lead from the front. In 2005 when one part of the Church sided with one side, and another part simply told us to use our judgement. The Church was bashed for abdicating from its role of guiding the flock. So what is the Church supposed to do? Personally I felt let down back then.
    3. The Kadhi courts need not be in the constitution. If they are not in the constitution of what harm will it be to the Muslims? I believe NONE AT ALL. To me allowing the Kadhis courts in the constitution elevates Islam above other religions. No non-Muslim would preside in the Kadhis courts while Muslim judges can preside in any Kenyan court. So clearly there is a case of discrimination there.
    4. Right now there is a lot of noise and people saying Kadhis courts are harmless. But the agenda is to systematically gain legal grounds on which to gradually introduce the Sharia law which is tyranical and very problematic even in Islamic countries. To me the most critical issue here is the case of the proverbial camel where the camel requested to put its nose in a man’s tent but gradually the man made concessions and eventually the camel cleverly threw him out and took over his tent.

    On the issue of abortion, it is a medical, psychological, ethical and moral issue. It is not possible to legislate morals however the Church leaders are again being the conscience of the society and cautioning us against recklessness. As Revelations says, “He who has an ear, let him hear.”

  15. Church leaders are shepherds…I agree!
    1. It is common knowledge that life begins at conception and that is what they want to be emphasised
    2. The law says that all religions are equal. why then elevated one religion and give it priviledges above others?
    -The draft constitution will allow the Imams to be paid by the govt(Kenyan taxes). why should I pay them and I will never need them anyway in any of my matters?
    3. Our church leaders have foreseen trouble and we should be very careful with this constitution that is being forced down our throats by politicians.

  16. Now, patience is a measure in every detail of (christian or contemporary) life. We must realize sobriety in every stage during constitution-making. As variously pointed out, it maybe difficult to amend any needful changes once we pass it the way it is presently. It is wise to listen to the true prophetic voices since i believe there is complete sense in what they are championing for. Thee church therefore will have a highly influential effect on the way forward. Let’s not hurry up only to a disastrous end! Let’s keep watch and take heed. We might soon find ourselves drowning in deathly waters like what was recently witnessed in Nigeria. The Church Leadership has a point in rejecting or leading to reject this draft.

  17. In the epistles of Paul,its written ‘though we walk in in flesh, our battle is not against flesh ‘n blood, but against principalities[gorverments] sitted in the heavenly places……..Our battle should be spiritual .So even as we reject this draft in the physical we should have Spiritual backing.May we be meek as we make our stand known lest we be deceived by the cunningness of the evil one to entice us to give just a little chance to the proposed draft, only to find us bound entirely in our generations.

  18. Having read how islimazation begins….its a SIMPLE NO.

  19. no no no.. life begins at conception.. abortion NO.. Am former….. I cant stand the …… courts.. My stand NO NO

  20. This is the time the church to voice out.. what we see in bush clinic.. oh God for ….

  21. The church leaders have a mandate as the shepherds to lead the sheep on the right path under the guidance of the holy spirit.
    The bible says, to whom much is given much is expected. Part of the leaders expectation is to show leadership on issues that borders on the true christian doctrine and worship of Jehovah. God said He is a jealousy God His worship will share with none- why allow the enshrining of kadhi courts which lead to worship of another god? Why kill life when its God who brings life. No one is an accident irrespective of how you were conceived.
    The political class is not committed to any meaningful change. They want power under all means.
    Lets be led of the holy spirit even as we weigh what the church leaders are saying. Read the draft, so that you are not wanting due to lack of knowledge.
    As the draft is at the moment I personal say A BIG NO!!

  22. using the right word to describe exactly wat the church is trying to do is to “intimidate the process” by their predetermined stand,they shud be flexible n give room for discusiion not imposiing their views to their followers.
    one thing that i think shud be clear is that as much as the kadhi court is controversial,christians are not subjected to both kadhi n the kenya’s laws
    we r only subject to one not two nothing much to worry abt coz this looks like tiz awar btwn Muslims n christians.

  23. I got this forward from a friend and I find it worthy to post it here. It is long but i believe worth your time.
    Note:All the media hses have refused to print it in the daily newspapers.

    Constitution Must Treat All Religions Equally
    A Commentary by Pete Ondeng and Peter Waiyaki

    The public discourse on whether or not the Kadhi Courts should be included in the constitution has been wrongly interpreted by many to be a Christian vs Muslim affair. The often uninformed rhetoric by hard liners on both sides of the argument adds an unnecessary and potentially explosive element to the already charged political atmosphere.

    The issue here is not about religion, but about the constitution. The move to change the current constitution springs from an acknowledgement by most people that there are wrongs in the document that need to be made right. There are some basic rights, for instance, that the original constitution did not address, and which need to be enshrined in the new document.

    Similarly, there were some provisions that were included by those who negotiated the Lancaster House document that no longer hold water and need to be scrapped.
    The Parliamentary Select Committee (PSC) retreat in Naivasha, which was expected by many to degenerate into an ODM vs PNU muscle-flexing contest, pleasantly surprised the nation by reaching consensus on almost all of the so-called contentious issues.

    In regard to the Kadhi Courts, however, the PSC missed the point and actually went astray. Curiously, the draft constitution that emerged from that retreat omitted a simple but critical phrase that had appeared in all the many draft constitutions that have been produced since the first one in 2002. All previous versions of the Draft Constitution have consistently stated categorically that “State and religion will be separate, there will be no state religion and that all religions will be treated equally. These provisions have now been removed, leaving only that There Will Be No State Religion. Most people are not aware that this small but significant change was made in Naivasha.

    Why was this phrase removed, and what would be the significance of its absence in the constitution? The only logical conclusion would be that the new constitution does not acknowledge all religions as equal. The Constitution enunciates equality for all citizens. Further it provides that nobody shall be discriminated against by reason of their religion, among other things. Unfortunately, the Kadhi courts are themselves an institutionalization of inequality. They seek to favour one religion over others by creating and protecting and providing for state funding of a purely religious system of dispute resolution.

    One of the central arguments from those who advocate for Kadhi courts to be included in the constitution is that the courts have been in the constitution since independence. This is very true. The courts did not accidentally end up in the constitution but were a part of the negotiations between Jomo Kenyatta and the Sultan of Zanzibar which led to the 10 mile coastal strip being incorporated into the Republic of Kenya at independence.

    However, these historical reasons and context no longer apply. What was then a
    concession to a small part of the country and a very small part of the population has now become a demand and a right applicable to the whole country

    Excluding the Kadhi courts from the new constitution would not in any way hinder the rights of Muslims to worship Allah or to establish courts and other mechanism of dispute resolution. The role of the Kadhi as a religious office will remain intact, organized and funded by the Muslim community, in the same way as other religions will be required to fund their own activities.

    The only effect of not including the courts in the constitution would be that, like for all other religions, there would be no funding using tax payers money, and the offices for Kadhis would be recognized rightly as religious offices, and not government office. Most importantly, the draft constitution that will soon be presented to Kenyans for a referendum must include the important clause removed by the PSC: that all religions will be treated equally.

    Pete Ondeng is a development economist & author of Africa’s Moment; Peter Waiyaki is an advocate of the High Court of Kenya

  24. Lets start with the results of voting no. 1. Kadhis’ courts remain in the constitution. 2. the current structures which precipitated the 07 elections remain 3. …i could go on and on. Is this what the church wants? S. 240 allows surgical operation done in good faith, with reasonable care and skill upon any person for ther bnefit of his health.

    True christians will never abort whether or not the constitution legalizes it and the fact that abortion is criminalised in our laws has not stopped even chrstians from procuring it.

    The constitution does not actually legalize abortion and that the religious leaders, many who have no learning whatsoever in legal interpretation are deliberately misreading and thereafter misleading the followers.

    The religious leaders are abusing their office by bulldozing their personal views and veiling them as views of thier followers. They are hypocrates who failed to stand up to stop the 07 post election violence and indeed were caught with their hands in the till. The loud mouths of the moments shied away from joining the clamour for the constitution when the likes of Njoya were being clobbered by Moi & Co,(who by the way are championing for no! to protect their ill acquired gains). make no mistake. I I am very christian and i will vote YES!

    • Hiram,

      1. the Violence of 2007 was not precipitated by the current constitution – but by poor governance and the good people of this country staying silent during the Kenyatta and Moi misrule! READ THE CONSTITUTION AND YOU will be shocked by how the Law of the Land has been broken by those we have allowed to rule us over the years.

      2. if we vote no , then as Christians we MUST now do the right thing – Pray and ensure that the next parliament has atleast 145 candidates supported,voted by the Church so that the can amend the constitution to remove the Kadhi’s court.

      I beseech all Christians to read the clause in the current constitution and know that it is illegal to have Kadhi’s Courts outside the ” the protectorate region” – whatever that means after 47 years of independence!!

    • I respect your opinion, Hiram. But know this: the fact that church leaders remained silent in the past doesn’t mean that they can’t guide us now. You don’t want to have your tax support the affairs of a religion you don’t profess… again, isn’t this a loophole we will be creating? What if Mungikis want the courts acknowledged in the constitution? Let’s not play around with Muslims… they know what they are doing and soon Kenya will be an Islamic state if we allow this constitution to pass. It’s by far worse than the current constitution. While we will never have a perfect constitution, we’d rather stay keep what we have that accept anything less.

      • Samuel, sadly, none of us are consulted on how our taxes ought to be utilized, and even if we voluntereed out opinions, probably they;l be disregarded. Why are you painting muslims as half mortals and strangers to kenya with ill motives and hidden agenda? Arent they as kenyan as you? dont they pay taxes? dont their taxes pay magistrates who preside disputes over marriages conducted by your church pastors under the African Christian Marriages Act? Arent muslims our own brothers and sisters? What are you suggesting they will do which they havent done since independence?

      • For one if you profess yourself a christian, then your brother and sister are those who are in christ with you. if anyone does not profess christ he is not your brother and sister. im not preaching hate or anything, but you have to know, as a christian you have a big mandate, and thats to be the salt and light of this world! not to conform to this world, when people see you, they should see something different! its sad how many christians are voting for this constitution, i dont understand how people can call themselves christians but not see the spiritual war going on, the devil wants kenya for himself! but God has reserved for himself a remnant here, and its those who will vote no. we will be persecuted but let it come, in the words of Martin Luther “And though this world with devils filled, should threaten to undo us. We will not fear for God hath willed, his truth to triumph through us.” I’m telling you, this is the time the church needs to start going against the grain and actually be the light and the salt of this earth! we will be persecuted but look at how islam spread into north africa after Rome fell! you know christianity had spread to africa even before rome fell, but the muslims came and took it over and forcefully converted people. the started by getting their hands on the law, and that spread. look at north africa now! and ever since thats been the agenda to islamize the whole of africa! brethren these are the last days, and many shall come in the name of christ, but let us not be fooled! i think this is the time for true christians to stand up and VOTE NO!

  25. Its interesting that for the last 20 years or more that we were fighting to have a new constitution, and the church was very instrumental, the issue of a Kadhi court or how we will deal with abortion/termination of pregnancy issue was not mentioned. Now we seem to have agreed on everything except the two (leave the people shouting about 3 tier system out). I love the church very much but in this I will differ with the people who have been given the mandate to provide me with spiritual guidance. Your mandate ends there, with spiritual guidance, you cannot force some one to follow the teachings and this should also not form the basis of you to condemn such people. By stating that we should completely remove the clause dealing with termination of pregnancy with total disregard to women health is wrong and for the information of my good church you cannot legislate morality, it has been proved even within the church system (not to say I don’t have faith in my church). If a pregnancy cannot be terminated when there is an emergency then know the constitution has problems, it does not protect life as it purports even the life of the unborn. How will this feotus survive long after the mother is dead? The church should stop pretending and let Kenyans go to the referendum. All church leaders and Bishops will agree with me that you preach and at the end of the sermon you ask those people who are willing to accept Christ to move forward and be part of the flock but you do not force them to repent. The constitution is not for the majority it is for all Kenyans and not all Kenyans are Christians.

    On the Kadhis court you need not to be worried it has nothing to do with you until you convert to Islam then it will affect you. So if you are planning to convert to the Islamic faith then you can contribute.

    Rejecting this new constitution will not change the fact that termination of pregnancy is allowed in cases of emergency and the Kadhis court will still be there in the old constitution.

    Martin Omondi is a Researcher on Adolescent Health and Development

    • Martin,

      1. Jesus would not have been born if Doctors were ASKED- there was no man in the conception process and Mary would have been in Danger since ” we would not have known what she was carrying ! Beethoven would not have lived, if the Doctors were asked! my own 7 year old son Sam was condemned by a number of Doctors in Nairobi- he was given a maximum of 3 months to live. today 7 years after HE IS SO FULL OF LIFE ! the process may be wrong BUT the product is ordained by God and have a right to live!! The Lord says – I knew you before you were formed in your Mothers womb, and I have good thoughts for you!

  26. As long as the Kadhis Court clause is in, NO stands as my vote for the day!!!! Can’t our leaders be realistic and realise there is something serious out of this? Look at all these countries where islamic is the religion with the majority of followers, what happens there?? Please, save us and our next generation from the unforeseen menace. Probably, in the next 20 years to come, most of the present leaders will have tralleved to the next world, what about the generation that will be in Kenya at that time?? please!! Lets follow our religious leaders.

  27. There is a small matter about these Kadhi courts which I think the church is overlooking. The first president made a treaty with the Sultan of Zanzibar to maintain them if Kenya was to have jurisdiction over the ten mile coastal strip. Whether the agreement was right or not is neither here nor there if I compare with the case of Joshua and the Gibeonites. No israeli of the latter generation was allowed by God to negate that treaty and Israel sufferred famine for three years and had to go back to honor it when Saul thought that as a king he could ride roughshoud over it. We are not honoring God by discarding any agrreement however faulty it is. Kenya should not become careless of agreements because God is a covenant God. His yes is yes even without a signature. We stood by as an MOU was dishonored and the nation has been off course since then. We have watched as the National accord is being broken and we have not made any comments. But now we are actively encouraging the nation to be covenant breakers. Remember terrible wickedness has been done in the name of protecting God including the crucifixion of christ. We should sober up and really repent for being hypocritical. The hype by which the whole debate is being conducted suggests it is just a smokescreen for some vested interest cos the Holy spirit is gentle and persuassive. The spirit of witchcraft is intimidating, manipulative and controlling. Ask a child what they have observed and they will tell you by which spirit we have been operating with. You can muster whatever argument you have against the constitution but the spirit is wrong and I dont want to be a partaker.

    The constitution offers a new beginning and remember Heb 7:12; Where there is a change of priesthood there must also be a change of law. The old priesthood are fighting hard because they know the new law will come with a new priesthood. Time for change has come and change will sweep away whatever stands in its way. And do not try to rebuke it because the change is coming from God.
    God is not threatened by Kadhi courts in the constitution. It is in fact a good platform for him to show himself as God inspite of it.

    • I like what your saying, but trust me God has given us revelation to know that these are the last days, and tribulations will come. Indeed having kadhis courts in the constitution is a steping stone for more than what we think can happen. As a christian look at this from a spiritual point of view. where logic and reason do not exist, but rather revelation and the extraordinary exist. God is not threatened by the kadhis courts, but he also has given us wisdom to know what it can lead to. look at how Israel got their first king. God even for-warned them about having a king and what he would do to them, but did they listen? no! they cried and demanded a king! look what saul did, he took their daughters and brought them into his palace, he took their vineyards and made them pay taxes, etc.
      we dont see the past the surface,but God does, and he has revealed to us that these are the last days, and the devil is stil out there like a roaring lion lookin for whom he may devour! be wise, and see with spiritual eyes where Kenya stands. This is a nation that has been called by God to be a home to refugees, a peaceful country. just like israel, God has called his children (us who have been called through Jesus Christ) to shed light unto this world, if kenya professes to be 80% christian then its high time to show it. otherwise know the other spiritual force, is massing his soldiers and using people to bring kenya down, and thus threatening what God has destined for Greatness! lets be wise and see with spiritual eyes, not with human eyes!

  28. NYAMBUNE
    Im not with them,there argument is baseless, becoz even the
    the current has kadhi and TOP in case the life of the mother is
    well.Whether we reject it, its still with us.

  29. YES. Im not with them,there argument is baseless,coz even the
    current one has kadhi and TOP if the mother is not in good Health.

    • Dear Sir,i think the most important thing is to understand how it happened to be there then 1963.could have been okey then but may be not for now.take time to study already what exists about its existence ,it could not be an issue of the clergy every one will understand how to goa along the issue.Read also the abuja declaration.Baraka

    • the current document has many bad things and thats why we are having a review process. every bad thing must be removed like the other bad things which were removed and no one is complaining about them because they are bad.

  30. Questions:
    1.Why is the church saying no this time yet in 2005 they told all of us to vote with our conscience? The Wako draft still had the Kadhi’s court provision, mind you?

    2. How come the church has never raised the issue of kadhi’s courts before? We’ve had them for over 40 years now yet they never spoke about its unfairness etc?

    3. Abortion is presently illegal under Kenyan law. However, the law has not stopped people from aborting at will-we even know the hospitals where these can be done for a small fee. Hence, having it outlawed in the constitution does not add any value to anyone. Abortion is a social problam rather than a leal issue. In fact, isn’t the church the institution where single pregnant irls are most prejudiced against?

    I am a Christian & I think I’ll vote for the constitution.

    • The issues of Kadhis has been raised for many years, they are illegal in their existence in this consistituition. read my comments below please

  31. I am a who believes in Bible Prophecy. The spirit of the anti-Christ is already at work. This is the spirit that denies that Jesus the Christ has come in the flesh as the Son of God. If we go back to the Bible we find that the spirit, the prince of Persia, was responsible for the change of Laws to 1. stop prayer (DANIEL 6) 2. Divert the worship of God to Satan (DANIEL 3) 3. To change a holy lifestyle that pleases God (DANIEL 1) 4. And To annihilate the Jewish people (ESTHER). The battle of the constitution is all about mainting Christianity or killing it. As Christians sometimes we lack words za kujitetea, but if we take the Esther kind of an initiative to pray together and in unity for our God kututetea, then we will not need debates or even fruitless audience with the president and the P.M. As a zealous Christian my vote is NO. A NO that comes with much prayer, fasting and winning souls that love Jesus and hate evil with a passion.

  32. Though the mood in the country is calling for a new constitutional dispensation, the harmonized draft constitution should be rejected in toto.

    We don’t want to be a killing nation where men and women, particularly those not married, after engaging in sexual escapades runs to a doctor to terminate the life of the inborn.

    On kadhi courts, we all should remember what happened recently when the Jamaican preacher was arrested and deported. His faithful made daring demonstrations daring the government with guns and jungle attire.

    All religions should be made equal alternatively the constitution should be amended to allow for religious courts whose judges should be paid by respective faiths and not from the government’s consolidate fund.

    My humble prayer is that the draft be defeated like silly.

  33. no the church cannot dictate to me. i know the systems of governance in the church. some are dictorial and outdated like the catholic bishop who are rigit for no reason. they should fight the new reformed catholic church which is a threat instead of fighting a lossing battle.

    • Wait for a surprise… this draft is going no where… the church will never dictate you but it remains the voice of God! The leaders have been put into their positions by God (Rom 13) and are His representatives!

  34. All these remarks are good. But look at the situation in Nigeria. They are almost dividing the country into 2 parts, Christianity and Islamic, because of the same mistake that we are doing. Are we ready for this?
    Secondly remember the Abuja declaration by our friends from the Muslim community.
    Thirdly, look at the countries where muslim is above 60%. Those countries are declared Islamic. What is strange if we declare Kenya as a Christian country since we enjoy 80% of Christianity?

    My vote is NO. I am not ready to pay Kadhis, Chief Kadhis and other related staff with my tax. NO

  35. thanks this is a good thing you have started and i was wondering if we can start voting by people signing. i will listen to church leaders. politicians have had their interest safe and secured in the draft constitution. now since the church issues have not been secured they promise that we can have them done after referendum. get me me right this is impossible. american have tried their all in vain for many years. let the church leaders be united and be taught exactly what these clauses meen before they are swayed by politicians.
    they need to know Khadhis cout were there in present consitituion by default and only restricted to 7km coast line, now in the draft it over the country. do we want another nigeria here in futere? no. issue of life the bible tell me clearly that God new me before i was born, even before i was formed in my mothers womb so what is this that life begins at birth. lets not sheat ourselves we vote yes now we have taken a whole glass of water which is 99% good with only .005mg of poison. will you remove the poison after i have cleared my thirst no. i will be dead then.
    kindly let somebody bring the clergy together give them enough enlightment of the draft and let them tricle this down to their subordanate until to the wanjiku who may no understand the language of the constitution. a time to stand and be counted church. this is when we can tell who are the 80% christain fighting for the lord.

  36. The Church and Church leaders are not making decisions for their followers, but as those given spiritual authority and mandate are giving direction. In the previous times they have failed but now they don’t want to fail that is why.

    As the spiritual leaders of this nation, they are warning us of danger but we are simply saying that we can handle that once we get there, please be advised, this document has issues that need to be dealt with.

    As an individual and a Christian my answer is NO, until the document is corrected. We have time for this but what is the hurry for. You know what people, once this constitution is enacted, we enter into a new Constitutional dispensation and the ills and evils committed under the current constitution may never be dealt with.

    If you love this country you should say, let us wait and correct the wrongs in the draft constitution. Even the politicians are agreeable that it has mistakes. Please vote NO.

  37. simple answer is NO

  38. I will Vote NO, this is because it is better to loose the billions which have been used in the consitituition review process than to loose lifes or be subjected to sheria laws later. we are aware of the Abuja declaration of 1989. the Islamization Agenda for Africa. and I do not wish that we pave way for Islamic republic of Kenya. We would rather have religious Courts than Islamic religious Courts in the Consistituition. We are aware of the illegality of the Kadhis Courts in the Major towns in Kenya. They were restricted to the 10 miles coastal strip and when Kenya was not a republic. they are in the current document by default. religion and state should and must be separate. I will vote NO, Please Vote No if You want to see a better Nation in Future. Learn from Nigeria, Sudan and Somalia

  39. Just for the sake of our beloved taxpayers lets all say yes!! Period. Even the woman or man you love most has his/her shortfalls.
    Nothing can be perfect at all at all, lets erase the notion of holiest than thou attitude. Christians me not included…..lets raise above religious biase.

    • We will not be saving any taxes by voting yes! Paying of taxes will continue anyway. Why should we endorse a draft that will cause more trouble in future…. You never want to be under islamic rule…. the simple answer is NO and NO. Join the club!

  40. Fellow Kenyans,

    1. Are we Kenyans so desperate and fatalistic that we want to pass a constitution that is so defective to the extent that within about one month or so of its passage we will mutilate it to the extent of a minimum of a hundred and fifty amendments while the 1963 Constitution (in as much as I don’t like many sections of it) had only thirty three amendments for the last fourty seven years?

    2. Articles 255 to 257 make the process of amending the Bill of Rights next to impossible because a referendum would be needed. Are the Kenyans and good brothers, sisters and friends saying we should pass this constitution as it is then we would amend it soon thereafter or at all sincere with themselves or with Kenyans when they state so?

  41. November 2009 harmonized draft: State and religion
    10. (1) State and religion shall be separate.
    (2) There shall be no State religion.
    (3) The State shall treat all religions equally.

    April 2010 draft (referendum draft)
    State and religion
    8. There shall be no State religion.

    What happened to article 10 (i) and 10 (iii)?

    It should have been a logical thing to remove the Kadhi courts in order to harmonize the constitution with respect to sections 10 (i & iii) in the November 2009. The CoE has instead left loopholes that de facto suggest that only one religion is recognized, and that state and religion are not really separate.

    Musau’s comments are spot on. Decide now, you won’t have the opportunity later.

  42. the current constitution is fine just the way it is. for the past 12 years we’ve seen considerable improvement in th country. this shows that this current constitution is merely in its infancy stages and should all the institutions perform fairly good, we’ll see even more growth. kenya’s constitutional history is already made and sealed, lets find new grounds to make good productive history. be blessed

  43. the church will not decide for us. we will read the draft and decide with our sober mind.
    SOme church clerics speak as a tribe other than as church leaders esp. the catholic and the PCEA leaders.

  44. My people perish for lack of knowledge! so says the good book.I am concerned that many people who are purporting to speak with religious zeal or is it fire, are not only ignorant of what the current constitution and laws say on the twin subjects of Kadhis Court and abortion and whether the draft can be amended as they are purporting. Why didnt the mps amend them, the Mutavas and Rutos were in parliament and couldnt do it. Why? At this point, the tie breaker will be your vote in the referendum. Your Yes and No. How many of you guys have actually read the “Abuja declaration”? how does it differ with your crusades to convert people to christianity? If we are saying the kadhis’ courts were left in our 1963 constitution by default, and that it was limited to the 10 mile coastal strip, are we prepared to allow muslims to secede with their 10 mile coastal strip? Is it kadhis’ courts which are making muslims fight christians in Nigeria?I am christian and urge all people of reason and tolerance to join me and vote yes because 1. whether we vote yes or no, kadhis courts will remain in our constitution. 2. Kadhis’ courts were included in our consitution to protect minority rights from being trampled by majority rule, kenyua having been granted custody and sovereignty over the ten mile coastal strip. 3. Kadhis’ court only apply to matters of personal law i.e marriage, divorce, succession where both parties are muslims and are voluntary 4.Muslims in the country are also tax payers and kenyans as well as each and every christian 5. the state has always supported the christian cause by allowing teaching of religion in state schools, sending teachers to church sponsored schools etc without a murmur from our religious leaders nor muslims 6. Section 240 of the current penal code allows for termination of unborn children to save the life of the mother just like in the current draft, and that the religious leaders and kenyans have never complained because this is only applied in instances where the life of a mother is threatened. 7. I cannot contemplate nor indeed countenance a constitution which is willing to sacrifice lives of millions of kenyan pregant women whose lives are at stake for the sake of the unborn 8. Even if the draft allowed abortion, which it does not, true christians will not abort because they follow a higher law than a constitution. 9. No one has come foward to tell me what this 0.1% poison in the draft constitutes, because I am not convinced that kadhis courts and abortion are this “poison”. If anyone can answer me on all the foregoing and do it convincingly, i undertake to change my stand. Until then, I am for yes and will do all in my power to have the draft pass!

    • Hiram, I wish to mention a few issues you have pointed at. I however wish to say that I fully respect your views. The existence of Kadhis Courts is by default. If you read the letter by kenyatta and the Sultan, you will discover that no where it said that they should be in the consistituition, the question is why were they included in the first place. you raised the issue of minority rights but in faith you join by will and you therefore don’t claim minority rights. furthermore what do you do when the minority become the majority? do you go back to change? in any of the countries where islam overgrew christianity, has it be ever changed. if we vote No the kadhis courts will remain in the current but in their current form(illegality) and the church has already challenged their existence in the current and the prayer is that they be deleted from existence. Kadhis courts have extended their operations behold personal law to civil laws in some countries and some states. this is the goal at long last. if we don’t remove the Kadhis courts today it will be more difficult to remove them when they become majority if they will ever be. every one pays tax but why should every ones tax be used to propangate religion which they do not support. this is a question of Justice. treating all religions the same. Why can’t we have religious court rather than islamic religious courts? why exult one religion above the others. the issue of abortion which you raised the question is who is a trained health official, a Lab tech or Nurse or radiologist or enrolled community nurse or a dentist or who, this quit open lets get the right person to avoid loop holes. the christians will not abort because of the higher law they follow but our concern is everyone. Please be convinced and Vote NO. God bless Kenya and save our Nation. Please let me get your comments on the issues i have raised.

      • Musau, I wish to respond to the issues you raise. Forst i must acknoweldge and indeed commend you for indepth examination of the issues you raise.
        First, i wish to state that kadhi’s courts didnt end up accidentally or by default in our constitution but by a deliberate act on the part of the coliniaL pursuant to the agreement of the sultan of zanzibar agreeing to confer sovereignty to the protectorate over the ten mile coastal strip to the colonialists. The independent government took over sovereignty of the costal strip on the understanding that kadhis’ courts would be enshrined in the constitution. The jurisdiction of the kadhis’ courts was limited to personal status, marriage, divorce and inheritance where both parties are muslim. This has been the position since independence and christians have never been prejudiced in any way by this status. In view of the fact that mainstrea churches supported the wako draft which had them, and that no complaints were raised in respect thereof, they are estopped from complaining.

        On the issue of protection of minority rights, i agree one choses which religion one wants to be. Its called the freedom of choice, this also relates to the freedom of association, freedom of expression and other related freedoms which allow worship. These allow different religions to exist. Muslims have a freedom of being governed in their personal life by islamic law and kadhis’ courts, why are we seeking to infringe this right just becayuse we do not have competing religious courts which can also be recognized. Indeed the drafters of the constitution foresaw the possibility of tyranny of the masses (christians) and decided to protect the muslims.Why are we seeking to criminalize muslims for their choice constitutionally exercised?

        In respect of the church’s challenge to the existance of kadhis’ coufrts in the current consitution, i wish to assure you that the Court has no power to remove the same and that only parliament can do so by two-thirds majority vote. So, if you vote no, unless mps get glue to pass such a vote, kadhis’ courts are here to stay.

        You raise the issue of muslims in other countries enforcing islamic law and hence your fear that in the event thy become the majority they will do that. The purpose of the constitution is to protect all people. Infact this is the very reason why we need the same to be provided for in the consitution to limit their jurisdiction, hence they cannot move one inch outside their mandate. Have you thought, what if we leave it to parliament where 16 members can pass a bill of parliament. In the event muslims are a majoritty,, 16 mps can pass a bill saying sheria law shall be the law of the land. This is the very mischeif that enshrining it in the consitution is intended to cure. Moreover, who are the muslims in this country. Our own brothers and sisters.Are we saying they are less kenyan than us christians?

        Musau, are you aware that as the current law stands, there is no provision which allows for amendment of the draft before it is presented to the people for a referendum vote? The last chance was in parliament. Wako has no power to amend, but only to publish the same. It is as had as amending the constitution after the vote, if not harder. Unless mps pass another amendment to the Constitutional review act to allow such amendments.

        On the issue of taxes, muslims also pay taxes, which co-mingled with christians yes, support kadhi courts, but some end up paying teachers salaries in church sponsored schools, should they also be asked where there taxes ought to go?

        On the issue of abortion, i wish to say that the constitution is the supreme law of the land, a framework for all other laws legislated which actuallize the constitutional provisions. The definition of a registered medical practitioner would be contained in the relevant legislation. Currently, a definition of registered medical practitioner would be contained in Section 2 and 11 of the 11 of the Medical Practitioners and Dentists Act Cap 253 of the Laws of Kenya. The qualifications of such a medical practitioner are set out therein in section 11.

        Finally, Article 25 of the draft constitution says abortion is not permitted unless in the opinion of a registered medical practitioner the mother’s life is in danger. The same is very similar to section 240 of our current penal code. Are we prepared to state that abortion is not allowed under all circumstances, irrespective of the danger to the mother’s life, as God will help her? Musau, I urge you to join me in voting for yes, the chief proponents of no propounding these issues are merely using these as a smoke screen to cover their hidden agenda.

  45. I am appalled to say the least on the stand that the church leaders have taken,Firstly on the issue of abortion.The draft constitution has established that life begins at conception and that in itself treats abortion as an offence an d derogation of the child’s right to leave.It only gives an exception to instances where the life of the mother is in danger and lets get real,how many christian couples would be willing to keep a pregnancy that will lead to the eventual death of the mother!in such instances it is a very personal decision,those leaders need not make laws that enslave us as bealivers,that choise is not as easy as it may look to those who find themselves in such instances it comes with it’s own traumatic experience.I wonder what theses churches are doing to influence it’s youth to stay chaste until marriage ,or how they ensure that the youth proggrrames they give are comprehensive enough to deal with issuse of intimacy,have they tried to look aroound at youth leadrs and choir members getting pregnant?Abortion also happens in the church where high ranking youths in ministry cannoy deal withthe stigmatisation that comes with pregnancy, whwt is the church doing about this?How many churches offer counseling services and welfare for women who,s pregnancies are as a result of rape?which church offers adoption services for women who decide to keep the pregnancy but not the child of arape ordeal?The preaching is all about success and blessings but what about these women?where are they suppossed to get the neccesarry support to keep these pregnancies?With regard to the khadhi’s court,it’s powers are limited to persons proffessing the muslim faith only ,we are not the only religion in this country ,whta happened to tolerance?we do not stand a chance to win them over by restricting their rights,otherwise we become just liker extrimists who persecute christians ,lets face it we do not exist in this country alone and we are not to judge any religion because that amounts to pride let us accept that some dfecisions are of a personal nature and we need to respect each other and accept each other.

  46. The Western world’s population is dying down. they have 60% old people above age 60 and only 40% young people.And the young people who are there are not reproducing offspring, because they abort left right and center since abortion is legal. So they shack up with each other but never have babies. How did they do it? through some donor money, convinced a few african feminist who are now their puppets. How come they are not fighting as hard to have women tested for cancer for free as they do in europe and else where? how come they are not having big campaigns about girls going to school being protected from rapists and having good jobs etc. How come they are not fighting against the ethnic bigatory? those are the real issues right now in kenya, for kenyans welfare not abortion and kadhi courts.

    The agenda to legalize abortion all over Africa is a western world agenda. They are afraid that with 60% young people and 40% old people in Africa and as smart as we are, we are headed for taking over the world after china and that scares them to death. In Arabic world the populations are balanced even those that are developed because abortion is not legal and cannot be allowed by the islamic law.

    When shall we ever follow what God’s will is? this is the time! If muslims/somalis who are less than 10% are forcing their islamic family, business laws, on the 90% non islamic in Kenya, why should the christians be apologetic or give excuses for why they cannot stand up as God expects them to and say NO to the constitution?

    Islamic culture is rule by intimidation. The word of God is against the spirit of control and intimidation. We need to take our place and stop being intimidated and say no to kadhi courts, no to abortion and no to gay rights. God will not come down and do it for us so he expects us to stand and be counted. If abortion and gay rights are rejected in some states in the US the most powerful and developed country in the world, don’t you think there is a reason why they do so?

    WE SAY NO TO THIS AGENDA! WE SAY NO TO THIS CONSTITUTION, TELL OTHERS, EDUCATE OTHERS, GOD IS COUNTING ON YOU! COME AGAINST THE SPIRIT OF INTIMIDATION FROM ISLAM AND PRAY FOR THEIR SALVATION.

    We also need to be notified if there is an islamic blog so that we participate in it with our questions and contributions. we are not intimidated!

  47. On the issue of the kadhi courts, the draft Constitution makes it national while in the current constitution it is along the 10 mile coastal strip. Voting yes for this constitution while it has loopholes for legalizing abortion means in future any child aborted, i will be party to it. Their blood will be crying out for justice to God. This is why i cant understand how a Christian can vote yes. This will bring judgment to the nation. I will vote No an ask God for mercy on me and my family if the yes team wins.

    • With all due respect Michael, you are not correct in saying the current constitution limits the kadhis’ courts to the ten mile coastal strip. I take the liberty to copy for you Section 66 of the current consitution for ease of reference

      66. (1) There shall be a Chief Kadhi and such number, not being less than three, of other Kadhis as may be prescribed by or under an Act of Parliament.

      (2) A person shall not be qualified to be appointed to hold or act in the office of Kadhi unless –

      (a) he professes the Muslim religion; and

      (b) he possesses such knowledge of the Muslim law applicable to any sect or sects of Muslims as qualifies him, in the opinion of the Judicial Service Commission, to hold a Kadhi’s court.

      (3) Without prejudice to section 65 (1), there shall be such subordinate courts held by Kadhis as Parliament may establish and each Kadhi’s court shall, subject to this Constitution, have such jurisdiction and powers as may be conferred on it by any law.

      (4) The Chief Kadhi and the other Kadhis, or the Chief Kadhi and such of the other Kadhis (not being less than three in number) as may be prescribed by or under an Act of Parliament, shall each be empowered to hold a Kadhi’s court having jurisdiction within the former Protectorate or within such part of the former Protectorate as may be so prescribed:

      Provided that no part of the former Protectorate shall be outside the jurisdiction of some Kadhi’s court.

      (5) The jurisdiction of a Kadhi’s court shall extend to the determination of questions of Muslim law relating to personal status, marriage, divorce or inheritance in proceedings in which all the parties profess the Muslim religion.

      I am christian and i will vote yes

      • Hiram, where is the ten mile coastal strip as agreed by the Sultan of zanzibar and Jomo Kenyatta? Can you tell me what happened to it? Be honest. Clearly the proposed constitution will expand the jurisdiction of the kadhi courts to nationwide as opposed to the current constitution.

      • Article 26 of proposed constitution.

        1.Every person has a right to life.
        2. the life of a person begins at conception.
        3. A person shall not be deprived of life intentionally , except to the extent authorized by this constitution or other written law.
        4. Abortion is not permitted unless, in the opinion of a trained health professional, there is need for emergency, or the life or health of the mother is in danger , or if permitted by any other written Law!

        Please forget the church leadership or our politicians position – What is your position on this article 26!

  48. According to my understanding the church is against reforms,issues of Kadhi courts and life are a main contribution to this,they should allow their followers to go ahead and vote for for the draft constitution since everyone knows what is good or bad.

  49. In all due respect and without sounding the judge to anyone who is calling themselves christians and is saying we vote yes or they will vote yes need to check their walk with God. I say this because there are people who would call themselves “christians” and still procure an abortion without a wink in their eyes. which by the way is murder if you didnt know! That is why the Lord said there are people who will go to heaven and say Lord Lord but i followed you and healed the sick and He shall say to them “Go away i do not know you, you workers of iniquity”.

    All that to say, we shall know them by their fruits, so we the church no matter what the “umati” says, we stand on the Lord’s side and we shall stand to be counted by voting no! If the 10% muslims love their religion so much that they want us to pay taxes to fund their values, then shame on any christian who does not feel compelled to say no to turning Kenya into Nigeria and southern sudan story, and no into murder by law. We have an opportunity once in our life time and let us do the right thing. Righteousness exalts a nation. Why do you think America is so blessed? there still remains a remnant who stand by God’s word!

    So doreen, michael and gladys. stop misleading people with your misinformation and confused standing. Read more and research more. and i were you i would want to hear from God about this issues, because certainly you have something against the church. So you have an option to go to God, since church leaders are only men if they have hurt you.

  50. Agree with you Amefica! Voting No!

    I received this from a friend:

    LIES THE MEDIA IS SPREADING ABOUT THE CONSTITUTIONAL KADHI COURTS AND ABOUT ISLAM

    LIE NO 1. – The Kadhi courts have been retained in the proposed constitution as they are in the current constitution. This is a blatant lie. Nothing could be further from the truth. The truth is that the jurisdiction of the Kadhi court in the current constitution is restricted to the 10 mile coastal strip stretching from the Indian Ocean . This was the territory that formerly (before independence) belonged to the Sultan of Zanzibar. This area did not belong to the British and was therefore referred to as the British Protectorate. This area is currently referred to as the former British Protectorate. Furthermore in the Bomas Draft and in all other drafts except the Proposed Constitution, the jurisdiction of the Kadhi court is restricted to this 10 mile coastal strip. In the Proposed Constitution the jurisdiction of the Kadhi Court will be nation wide. I hold that there is a big difference between a ten mile coastal strip and nation
    wide.

    LIE NO 2. – The Kadhi court will not affect you if you are not a Muslim. This is a barefaced lie. You must not believe it. The courts will affect everything in your life. You may even find yourself without a place of worship as in the story above. Your taxes will pay the Kadhi and his staff. If each Kadhi gets a million and you add construction and other expenses, they could be taking off a clean 20 Billion from our national budget. They will use GK vehicle, they may take your land for construction of the courts.

    LIE NO 3. – The Muslim “brothers are freindly people who mean no harm”. This is the biggest lie of all; Muslims are sworn enemies of Christians. Their faith encourages them to lie to kafiris. (Non-Muslims) and to kill kafiris who get in the way of their religion. In Islamic nations, like Pakistan , a Christian can be arrested and jailed for preaching. Here in Kenya , we seem to be rolling the red carpet for the Muslims. Take a look at the Islamic nations around us; see the kind of violence we are inviting.

    LIE NO 4. – That having Constitutional Kadhi courts in Kenya is purely for sorting out family matters between practicing Muslims. This is also a lie; the plan of constitutionalizing the Kadhi courts is a part of the Abuja Declaration for the Islamatization of Africa. It is not an isolated incident. It happened first in NIGERIA . Today in Nigeria , pastors have to buy guns and hire people to guard churches, but our “Muslim brothers” are still managing to burn some of them.

    LIE NO 5. – That all religions will be equal before the eyes of the law. This is the mother of all lies. The CEO deleted the clause” THE GOVERNMENT SHALL TREAT ALL RELIGIONS EQUALLY” This clause was present in the bomas draft , and in all subsequent drafts, but it was deleted by the Muslim headed COE to make way for the elevation of Islam from the proposed constitution. Christians be warned, the only religion in the proposed constitution is Islam. Christianity doesn’t even get a mention. Do not be deceived, they are trying to sneak in Sharia Law through the back door. Ask yourself, why would they delete this clause unless the opposite is true?

    LIE NO 6. – That the amendments can be done after the referendum. This is probably the most shameless lie of all. The truth is that one requires a million signatures to petition a clause, a 2thirds majority in both the upper and lower houses and a referendum to change a single clause in the Protected Articles. Kadhi courts fall under the article on the judiciary which is protected and Abortion fall under the Bill of Rights which is also protected. They are making a fool of us. If we swallow this, they will soon be laughing all the way to the Consolidated Fund and the Treasury.

    LIE NO 7. – This is the best proposed constitution so far, the let church not be a wet blanket by spoiling it. This is merely a guilt card and they should know better than to pull this one. This is not the best constitution so far, in fact it is the worst. It has a host of hidden clauses insert by individuals and groups of individuals with sectarian interests. These clause are so disguised one requires an international law degree just to recognize them. Take the clause on
    abortion for instance. This is the same clause that was used in the UK to legalize abortion. Whoever came up with the clause must not only be
    well informed but also very conniving.

    SOME ALARMING DEVELOPMENTS HAPPENING IN KENYA AS YOU READ THIS

    1. Do you know why government is yet to release the results of the census which ought to have been released ages ago? The reason is not
    only shocking, but alarming. It is because persons of Somali ethnicity now out number any others in Kenya . Experts are saying this kind of increase can only be explained by immigration not birth. In a case of too little too late, the government has now stopped admission of children into public schools without birth certificates to curb illegal immigration. The question is, what about all those Somalis that now hold illegal ID, what they are going to do about them. The government has already lost cases in court against these illegal ID holders. Our courts appear to hold the view that a national ID is sufficient proof of citizenship .Somalis are 99.9% Muslim. As you read this, these illegal ID holders are now busy being registered en mass as voters by a Muslim headed IIEC. You still think all is well?
    2. Have you noticed that mosques have multiplied ten fold in our neighborhoods in the last 5 years?
    3. Have you realized investment by Muslims and Islamic countries have also increased ten fold?
    4. Are you aware that the head of IIEC, the PSC, and the COE are all Muslims?
    5. Are you aware that our beloved Prime minister has some kind of pact with Muslims?
    6. Are you aware that our president as well has some kind of pact with ISLAMIC COUNTRIES?
    7. This can only mean Kenya has been targeted to become an Islamic haven. This ought to make you very worried. They now have the voting
    power and the money. They are also very united and extremely good strategists.
    8. Have noticed the increase of incidences of demonstrations conducted by Muslims for the most minor reasons?
    9. Did it capture your attention that for the first time in Kenya , we had demonstrators using guns to attack security officers? Tellingly this was a peaceful demonstration by our harmless “Muslim Brothers”. This ought to worry you.
    10. Did you know that according to a recent UN investigation hundreds of Kenyan Somali youth are now fighting alongside the insurgent AL- SHABBAB against the TFGORVERNMENT of Somalia? Do you realize that if history is anything to go by, these youths are likely to come back
    home and use their experience to instigate plan and execute a parallel insurgency right here in our own country. If this doesn’t worry you, I don’t know what will.
    11. Are you aware that our politicians having noticed that the landscape is increasingly Islamic are now falling over themselves to
    make pacts with Muslim leaders in order to secure their political future?
    12. Are you aware that you are now the last hope in this war? The politicians have failed, the civil society has failed, the professionals have failed, and the experts too have failed.

    WHAT CAN I DO?

    § Register as a voter and wait for the referendum.

    § Send this email to all Christians. you must do this with urgency. Time is far spent and we must inform all before the Islamic propaganda gets to them.

    § Print out this email and make copies for the friends you have who have no email. Please do this with utmost haste. The future of the
    future generations depends on us.

    § Translate this article into another language. I do not posses the expertise to do this.

    § Edit the article to your suitability (Add facts I may have omitted or clarify others) and resend to all Christians you know. And please
    hurry and do not delay.

    • (this is my response to the dangerous email that has been circulating)

      I rarely read or respond to forwards. However I’ve made an exception since this issue relates to my brothers & sisters who carry the name of Christ. At the bottom of our arguments & counter-arguments we should always have this question: What would Christ have done? What did Christ tell us to do? Forget about the points that we try to score…just seek the Spirit of Christ.

      Does it not shock you that none of the clergy is telling us what the Spirit of God is saying at this time? They are all, to the best of my knowldge (& I stand to be corrected on this) seeking to score political goals. For what end? Will it take Christ’s work forward? I honestly cannot claim that I know what God’s Spirit is telling us-but neither can the Bishops. That’s why the best strategy is for all of us to pray & take the position where our hearts are most at peace.

      To be honest this is just propaganda & I will not be a part of it. It could have come from a Christian but it is propaganda nonetheless: full of half truths and dangerous innuendo. If it is not then why, pray tell, do you have these words at the bottom: “Keep the article away from Islamic headed commissions and committees
      and from the Islamic Nation Media.”?. This is just creating unncessary divisions. Remember we already have tribal divisions-you do not want to add religious fights to th mix.

      A few thoughts to think about:

      1. The jurisdiction of the Kadhi’s courts is NOT restricted to a 10 mile coastal strip in the present constitution. (I am a lawyer so at least take my word for it. If not then get a copy & confirm for yourself). We even have a kadhi’s court in Upper Hill under our present constitution. The proposed constitution has just retained the same jurisdiction at present. Kadhi’s courts ONLY deal with matters of inheritance, divorce and marriage (that is, personal law) where BOTH parties are Muslim. That means that if you have a dispute with a Muslim on anything he CANNOT take you to a kadhi’s courts-or if a Muslim kills another Muslim he will be taken to the ordinary court. We have had kadhi’s courts countrywide since independence & they have NEVER affected Christians. NEVER. So why do we suggest that this will change when we continue with a practise that has been there for long.

      2. The jurisdiction of the Kadhi’s courts was restricted to a 10 mile coastal strip BEFORE independence. However, after independence since they wanted an assurance that their right to practise their religion would be guaranteed the kadhi’s courts were inserted in the present constitution and jurisdiction extended throughout the country. This was the assurance that the Sultan needed in order to agree to be part of Kenya. If we take kadhi’s courts away then we might as well revert to 2 countries-the 10 mile coastal strip & mainland Kenya.

      3. The constitution making process was about making right everything that was wrong in the country. We have to admit that before this process started the clergy never complained about the courts. We are like a child who is now jealous becaus his brother has a lollipop. Either ask for the same lollipop yourself or keep quiet and watch him enjoy it. It would be insincere to ask that the lollipop b taken away from him.

      4. In 2005 referendum the kadhi’s courts were in the Wako draft yet the NCCK & Catholic churches still told us to vote with our conscience. What has changed now?

      5. It is true that the Chief kadhi gets paid by taxpayers. But let us be brutally honest. First, it is NOT 20 billion as alleged. They get the same salary as an ordinary magistrate & there are not many kadhis. Secondly, the kadhi is NOT a priest like your pastor. He is a judge determining personal law matters involving Muslims according to their laws. In any event, remember that Muslims are also tax payers like we are. If we take this route then Muslims can also argue that their taxes should not be paid to a magistrate when he is administering a case involving the African Christian Marriage & Divorce Act. Or, like I heard, the Army Chaplain or Police Chaplain should not be paid using their taxes. If we take the argument to the xtreme then a Luo should not pay taxes to a magistrate when he is administring Kamba customary law. Do we really want to take this route- because it will eventually lead to anarchy.

      6. If it is true that the “courts will affect everything in your life” as alleged the simple question is why you have never been affectd to date. I have never gone to a kadhi’s court-& neither have you. Let’s just be honest.

      7. What is happening in Nigeria & Pakistan is sad. However, it has got nothing to do with kadhi’s courts. NOTHING! They do not even have kadhi’s courts there. So please let’s be careful not to mix issues here. The constitution is not seeking to introduce sharia law. In fact like I said we’ve been peaceful with them. In this debate I sense a futile attempt to stop the advance and growth of Islam. It is futile because the ONLY way to stop the advance of Islam is by propagating our own faith-loving them as Christ loves them & praying for them.

      8. The COE was NOT headed by a Muslim as allegd in Point 5. The COE was headed by Nzamba Kitonga (I do not know if he is a Christian but he’s definitly not a Muslim). There was only one Muslim in the COE.

      9. The proposed constitution does NOT allow for abortion as alleged. It has just indicated exceptions when a pregnancy can be terminated-when in the opinion of a medical professional (can be a nurse or a doctor) the life of the mother is in danger or emergency treatment is necessary. If, for example, there is an ectopic pregnancy or the mother is bleeding one can either refuse to interfere & allow both the mother & the baby to die or the doctor can terminate the pregnancy in order to preserve the life of the mother. This is the ONLY excption under the proposed constitution. Otherwise the proposed constitution states that everyone has a right to life & that life begins at conception.

      (In fact the proposed constitution is one of the most pro life constitutions in the world. The COE had initially only stated that “Everyone has a right to life”. However the Church insisted that there should be a provision that “Life begins at conception”. This was granted but of course the exception also had to be inserted to take care of exceptional situations that doctors face. I think that was only fair.
      A woman who has been raped still CANNOT abort under the proposed constitution)

      10. No one can claim to know the results of the last census. Not you, not I. It is simply speculative to state that Somalis are the majority. There is absolutely no basis for such a ridiculous statement. & like I said before there is nothing wrong if the Deputy Speaker or the chair of IIEC is a Muslim. They are Kenyans after all. After all, the President, VP & PM are Christians (the last two even claim to be born again Christians). Where is grace in the church?

      11. What would Jesus do? What has He commanded us to do? Where is the Spirit of Christ? I simply find it hard to believe that He would be shouting ‘HAKI YETU!’ on the streets- or through the net-as we all seem to be doing. I know He taught us to turn the other cheek, give your neighbour a coat if he takes your shirt, pray for your enemies.

      10. The choices are starkingly clear. You either vote No & we continue with the current constitution (which already provides for kadhis courts and under the current law a medical professional can still terminate the pregnancy to save the life of the mother) or you vote Yes for the new constitution and adopt what we already have in the law together with other good provisions.

      I do not have any word from the Lord on this (I doubt if anyone does-but that is a discussion for another day). The choice is yours.

      Blessings,
      Ronald Rogo

      • I totally agree on the points you espouse.You are absolutely correct on the interpretation of the law. I wish all christians would be more open minded like you

      • Ronnie + Hirum

        Article 26.

        1.

        Every person has a right to life.
        2. the life of a person begins at conception.
        3. A person shall not be deprived of life intentionally , except to the extent authorized by this constitution or other written law.
        4. Abortion is not permitted unless, in the opinion of a trained health professional, there is need for emergency, or the life or health of the mother is in danger , or if permitted by any other written Law!

        Please forget the church leadership or our politicians position – What is your position on this article 26!

        1. who is a trained health professional in Kenya? a doctor?, a nurse?, a physiotherapist? a medical lab Technologist? a herbalist – who call themselves Doctors?
        2. Written Law ? which other written Law?

      • Muthiora,
        Good questions.

        1. This is open for interpretation by the courts in future. However, I think it should be someone with formal training and certification from a registered health regulating body. A herbalist will definitely not qualify (or even watchmen & subordinate staff in hospitals as some allege). I would limit it to doctors, nurses & clinical officers. These are the people who examine and can make such a determination that the life of the mother is in danger.

        By the way the present Penal Code provision in Section 240 states that:

        “A person is not criminally responsible for performing in good faith and with reasonable care and skill a surgical operation upon any person for his benefit, or upon an unborn child for the preservation of the mother’s life, if the performance of the operation is reasonable, having regard to the patient’s state at the time and to all the circumstances of the case.”

        So it is obvious that the the proposed constitution has narowed down the people who can conduct legal abortions from “any person” to “a trained health professional”. I think this is good.

        2. Apart from the Penal Code that illegalises abortion-except to save the mother’s life-there is presently no other written law that ,talks about abortion. However, Parliament is given power to determine other circumstances when abortion can be allowed in future.
        In my view this is where the lobbying etc should take place-when Parliament wants to use its powers to make this other law. However, this provision is taking away nothing from us since even today Parliament has the power to make such laws by amending the Penal Code.

        I hope this is clear. Remember the bottom line is that thise section is absolutely pro-life

  51. The church has a wake up call through this constitutional debate. While i accept that we all cannot agree, there are certain fundamental issues that are not subject to debate-One of them is that the bible says you shall not kill. Any law that gives room for abortion means we will enact a law that will lead to killing of innocent lives. Now if someone calls themselves a Christian and supports such a law, then we need to redefine who a Christian is. I think the church has number of people that just go to church because it is politically correct to do so. They are not committed to the Bible. These are the people that differ with their bishops/pastors/priests on issues that are clearly critical to the Christian faith. I suggest they stop calling themselves Christians because they don’t fit the definition.

  52. To Michael and all other christians representing that the jurisdiction of the current kadhis’ courts is limited to the ten mile coastal strip, I can only find solace in the cold letters of Section 66 of the Constitution copied and pasted hereunder:

    66. (1) There shall be a Chief Kadhi and such number, not being less than three, of other Kadhis as may be prescribed by or under an Act of Parliament.

    (2) A person shall not be qualified to be appointed to hold or act in the office of Kadhi unless –

    (a) he professes the Muslim religion; and

    (b) he possesses such knowledge of the Muslim law applicable to any sect or sects of Muslims as qualifies him, in the opinion of the Judicial Service Commission, to hold a Kadhi’s court.

    (3) Without prejudice to section 65 (1), there shall be such subordinate courts held by Kadhis as Parliament may establish and each Kadhi’s court shall, subject to this Constitution, have such jurisdiction and powers as may be conferred on it by any law.

    (4) The Chief Kadhi and the other Kadhis, or the Chief Kadhi and such of the other Kadhis (not being less than three in number) as may be prescribed by or under an Act of Parliament, shall each be empowered to hold a Kadhi’s court having jurisdiction within the former Protectorate or within such part of the former Protectorate as may be so prescribed:

    Provided that no part of the former Protectorate shall be outside the jurisdiction of some Kadhi’s court.

    (5) The jurisdiction of a Kadhi’s court shall extend to the determination of questions of Muslim law relating to personal status, marriage, divorce or inheritance in proceedings in which all the parties profess the Muslim religion.

    The said jurisdiction is further set out specifically in Section 4 of the Kadhis’ Courts Act Cap 11 of the Laws of Kenya. I have copied the same hereunder:
    4.(1) In pursuance of section 66 (3) of the Constitution there shall be established such number of Kadhi’s courts as the Chief justice may, in consultation with the Chief Kadhi, determine.
    (2) The Kadhis’ courts shall have jurisdiction as follows –

    (a)three courts shall each have jurisdiction within Kwale District, Mombasa District, Kilifi District and Lamu District;

    (b) one court shall have jurisdiction within-

    (i) Nyanza Province;

    (ii) Western Province; and

    (iii) the following districts of Rift Valley Province-
    West Pokot District
    Trans Nzoia District
    Elgeyo-Marakwet District
    Baringo District
    Laikipia District
    Nandi District
    Uasin Gishu District
    Kericho District
    Nakuru District;

    (c)one court shall have jurisdiction within Wajir District and Mandera District;

    (d) one court shall have jurisdiction within the Nairobi Area and the Central and Eastern Provinces except Marsabit District and Isiolo District;

    (e) one court shall have jurisdiction in Garissa District and Tana River District;

    (f) one court shall have jurisdiction in Marsabit District and Isiolo District.

    (3) Each of the Kadhis’ courts shall be a court subordinate to the High Court and shall be duly constituted when held by the Chief Kadhi or a Kadhi.

    (4) A Kadhi’s court may be held at any place within the area of jurisdiction of the court.

    Clearly, I think some people are either lying throught their teeth or are misguided. Either way, I think the people saying the jurisdiction in the current constitution is limited to the ten mile coastal strip and that the draft will extend the jurisdiction throughout the country are wrong. The ninth commandment has been broken in the name of the Lord, and I can only say REPENT and stop misleading innocent and unsuspecting kenyans.

  53. The state legalizing abortion could have not been an issue if statements like ” under the help of a medical doctor” or ” under due to legitimate reasons or anticipated problems diagnosed by a medical doctor” or if words to that effect were included. Apparently, every body knows that abortion is wrong before GOD but how many abortion cases occur in grassroots or behind the closed doors which the state and the church are completely oblivious of?Take for example today your daughter was raped by armed robbers. A handful of people will advice you to abort the child while equal percentage of people will encourage you to let the child to grow. Another similar scenario comes when a father- under the influence of unknown- sleeps with his daughter who then becomes pregnant. In simple abortion to me are some of the personal issues whose verdict should be left to the principle actors. LET THEM TO DECIDE TO ABORT OR NOT TO. Remember we were created by GOD who left us on this world to stay and wait for his return. He will judge everyone of us accordingly.

    • Hi Bernard,

      If God’s ways were our ways, then Geneology of Jesus Christ in Mathew Chapter 1 would not have included:
      1. Perez son of Tamar and her Father in Law , Judah.
      2. Salmon son of Rahab the Prostitute
      3. Solomon son of Uriahs wife by David. David Killed Uriah to get her.
      4. David – he was a murderer and yet a friend of God.

      The process of conception could be wrong BUT in God’s eyes the product is perfect in His sight. He says” I knew you before you were formed in your mothers womb” once conception takes place no one has power to choose whether or not to carry the pregnancy to term – Jeremiah 29:11, Psalms 139: 13-17 etc

  54. The problem here is that many people are too lazy to read for themselves and settle on the word of their leaders as that of God. People who are quick to condemn others actually show they have not read on the constitution when they say the constitution allows for abortion. This constitution say ” ABORTION IS NOT PERMITTED”. I dont know how you can interpret that to mean you vote for murder when you vote yes. These half truths are what make the church not to be taken seriously by those who have read the constitution by themselves.

    Someone seems to have seived the constitution to the pastors through some angle which they have so believed but which other people who dont view through that angle cannot see. We are talking at crossroads. Can the church begin to tell the nation clearly what their real fears are? Cos the arguments they put across cannot stand careful scrutiny. speak the truth and shame the devil else it all looks like some clever politician is using them to promote his agenda.

  55. To Hiram,
    Can you tell me at what stage the jurisdiction of the kadhis courts within the ten mile coastal strip was removed? I hope you have read the agreement between the Sultan of Zanzibar and Jomo Kenyatta. Doesn’t this then show an expansionist agenda and don’t you think this is what most Christians are up against? That currently is purported to deal with family, inheritance issues and that this could later on be expanded? I also wanted to ask you what the muslims will lose if the kadhi courts is removed from the constitution but they are allowed to practise like all other religions. The other issue is why should the muslims be exempted from the bill of rights-are we not creating two classes of citizens within the same nation?

    • The jurisdiction of the Kadhis’ courts has never been limited to the ten mile coastal strip. I would ask you to re-read the sections I quoted and look at the time when the said sections were included in the Constitution and Kadhis’ Courts Act. Since independence, kadhis’ courts have been in our constitution and laws and apply throughout kenya. The first amendments to the Kadhis’ courts Act was in 1970. All these donkey years, christians have kept mum until now. There are three concepts i’d like to draw you attention to. They are called indolence, acquiescence and estoppel. All of them add up to saying if you slept on your rights all these years, you just cant wake up several years later and purport to make noice.

      The jurisdiction of Kadhis’ courts is provided in the consitution. The threshold of amending the consitution is higher than ordinary legislation. Hence its harder to change the consitution than other ordinary legislation. this is a safeguard against 16 mps ganging up together to effect an amendment in any legislation. That appreciated, i would say that the prejudice which the muslims will suffer is that all other courts draw their legality from the consitution. In the event kadhis’ courts are removed from the constitution, then they would be unconstitutional and would have to be scrapped all together.

      For your information, all muslims in Kenya are subject to each and every provision of the constitution including the bill of rights, and that the bill of rights is what allows them to use islamic law in respect of their personal law touching on divorce, marriage and inheritance. The same applies to you, if you chose to become muslim, you are allowed this right. I believe I have sufficiently addressed your concerns and urge you to vote for yes at the referendum.

  56. To janice Amba, you are selectively reading the article on abortion. Please go back and check and confirm the following which most Christians have a problem with. First i agree with you that the article says “Abortion is not permitted”. but please go down where the article opens up the same abortion by saying that abortion can be allowed as “per any other written law” Don’t you see that it closes abortion in the beginning and opens it up at the end. Ask yourself why it is being opened. also in the middle of the article it talks of abortion permitted in cases of emergencies or when the life of the mother is threatened-the trouble here is that the word emergency can be misused-My opinion is that we had the Committee of EXPERTS and i don’t think such issues are just oversight but mischievously and deliberately put there for some ill intentions.

    • The same constitution states elsewhere that whatever law that will be written to augment the constitution should not negate the original meaning. This means that any other written law should not go against the orignal meaning which was ” ABORTION IS NOT PERMITTED”. It can define instances on when a mother’s life is threatened. If the poblem is the issue of ‘any other law’ then that should have been brought out clearly by the clergy because what people are getting is that the clergy do not care if for example a woman has an ectopic pregnancy and must have that removed inorder to save her life. The preceeding clause states that life begins at conception which would make removing an ectopian pregnacy illegal. I still think the church has not explained herself well and has allowed others to do so on their behalf but they have been very vocal in issuing ultimatums.

  57. Janice i agree with you. The media has portrayed the church in the wrong light and has misrepresented the position of the church. I am even told they are preparing dosiers to portray some bishops as immoral, corrupt etc. This is intended to disenfranchise the clergy and the members. The position of the church is that it is not against the saving of the mother if her life is in danger and this opinion is given by medical doctors.

  58. Abortion is a biblical matter, and affects the lives of believers who have ascribed to the leadership, and therefore to the will – covenant of the LORD. It only follows that abortion will be a choice of the individual – ‘personal matter’… and the doctor will not prevail on any to procure an abortion.

    What about those that are without the covenant? Do we force them to ascribe to the laws of Christ Jesus because we know that it is a word that is trustworthy;

    Let us give grace and pray for the salvation of souls and not pretend that we are in defense of the gospel at this hour, even when another woman is procuring an abortion under a constitutional dispensation that prohibits the practise…

    Believers, how many of you have hunted down the murderous doctors today and handed them over to the authorities in the name of ‘citizen’s arrest’ since the vice is outlawed today.

    Extend grace…

  59. CHURCH IS VERY IMPORTANT IN ANATION,THEY ARE THE RIGHTENOUSNES OF GOD BY HIS GRACE AND HIS GIFT OF HIS SON AND HE USES THE CHURCH TO BUILD NATIONS,BECAUSE OF THEM A NATION IS NOT DESTROYED
    SO ONE SHOULD EVER UNDER ESTIMATE THE TRUE CHURCH OF GOD

    • Indeed the church is the body of christ, but i’d advice against taking the words of the mortal men behind the religious cloaks purporting as the voice of God. Particularly when we know that they have political ambitions and have gone to bed with unscrupulous politicians. Such men have plundered and pillaged the poor of the earth in the name of God. They have stolen in the name of God. They have molested young boys and girls in the name of the Lord.

      • Hiram you seem to haber hate toward preachers that is not justifible.If a person who walked and pretended to be apreacher molested a child does that make all of them gilty of the same sin.Remember God had rejected Eli in the old testament but he is still the one who pronounced a blessing in the name of God to Hannah for her to get Samuel.Whichever way you look at it as long as someone has that robe as apriest of God(pastor)he has authority.Its time you started loving pastors if you’re born again otherwise you will never get anything from them.

  60. Hiram, Ronnie and Janice,
    you seem to say you read, i suggest you also research. Days are gone when we had christians and church leaders who are ignorant. We research and read. So please be fair to yourselves and read the histories of what happened in Nigeria, Islamization there started with personal laws. Also read the Abuja declaration. If you have time also read the history of the islamization of macedonia and other Balkan countries. He is a fool he who ignores history. The church leaders are not just saying it for the sake of it. It is danger zone, it does not matter what is in the law now or before, we do not want to go through islamization process. we want it OUT!

    We are also not ignorant of the Islam philosophy of intimidation and that is why they use terrorism to scare off and intimidate with use of force. So as a christian you have to decide if you are going to be ruled by the spirit of fear against good judgement on this issue. Islam and Christian has always been a clear demacation since the bible days so we are not going to change that. we can only pray for them to get saved and love them. but love will never be on the same side of unforgiveness, hatred and murder by law.

    Let us also not be ignorant of his divices. Actually i expect some postings here have been made by muslims. they are very strategic. Therefore i agree with somebody who had asked if anyone knows a blog by muslims which we can go to and contribute our views. We are not intimidated by them we are not ruled by the spirit of fear and no christian is!

    • Zawadi, first, since it appears you are a good researcher and Ronnie, Janice and myself may not be, why dont you paste the islamic declaration here so that we are all aware of its provisions. Dont forget to cite the source.
      To enable us be on the same page,
      1.what is your definition of “islamization”?
      2. exactly is this agenda achieved by kadhis’ courts?
      3. Listing the names of the people who drafted the independence constitution, tell me how many muslims were there?

    • The point is this Zawadi. You and these church leaders know the Abuja declaration and the danger it poses to the nation so it has given you a perspective and fears for the land which the rest of us do not have. You are not sharing this knowledge yet you expect people to support your fears. To make it worse, you are hiding your knowledge behind filmsy arguments and when challenged are quick to label your challengers as non believers. It might suprise you but many people out of the church are active thinkers and expect you to offer valid and lucid arguments if you expect to carry them with you. The church should therefore engage a different gear if they have decided to enter this arena outside the church walls. The Lord makes his laws very clear before he asks you to use your free will to decide. Use the same formular and you will be surprised. Alternatively the church should not use the arm of flesh and engage the spiritual weapons they have been given which is to please the Lord as the bible says ” When a man’s ways pleases the Lord, he makes even his enemies to be at peace with him” coz “The weapons of our warfare are not carnal but are mighty through God to the pulling of down strongholds. Casting down imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of the Lord.” I think the church should go back to “put on the full armor of God” in order to save the nation. People who interceded did so by the righteou lives they lived and not through militancy as the secretary to the NCCK is doing by traversing the nation.

    • Zawadi,
      (nice name by the way. my daughter also has the same name)

      I hear what you are saying. You fear that Muslims are taking over. You are afriad that christianity is losing ground. Fair enough. In fact you are honest because this is the main issue actually-only that the clergy will not verbalize it.
      But like Hiram & Janice although I have heard of the Abuja Declaration I have not seen it. But even assuming that it is a valid document & agenda (after all Muslims walso want to propagate their religion) we should always remember that our response should be spiritual NOT physical. The weapons of our warfare are spiritual & not carnal. So even if kadhi’s courts are removed, will that stop the spirit of Islam from spreading? I’m afraid not!
      The only effective response to the Abuja Declaration is to do what Christ would do: To love all Muslims like Christ loves them-in fact to die to self & serve them. The way of the Cross is about loving your enemy, giving your neighbor your coat if he takes your shirt, seeking to be last & not first. It has got nothing to do with shouting “Haki Yetu” in press conferences-that is just political drama.
      While we are on this discussion at least let us agree that it is possible to vote ‘Yes’ & still be a good Christian-the converse is also true.

      • Janice from the look of things you look saved.Let me ask you one thing
        Why are so much in defence of a religion you do not subscribe to!
        Suppoese you later realize the preachers are true and there is no oppotunity to reverse the effects of ignorance what will you tell God.
        The preachers you should know have reasons and if you are genuinely saved why don’t you go to ncck offices and talk to Mr Karanja of your fears and ask him why he’s so much agaist the draft.I assure you you’ll come out with reasons to vote NO.Pls for the Abuja declaration is not a secret thing.We now know it and i would recommend you Listen to Bro Adam Hadji Mohammed of aL-hayat ministries.He hails from Somalia but he has ministered extensively here in Kenya and even did his Bible school in Kenya.He’s also a muslim scholar who used to be an IMAM and later got saved.He was part of that Abuja Declaration and i recommend you buy his tapes from Kingdom seekers Fellowship in Nakuru where he ministered in a conference some time back.All in all i know a servant of God cannot go a bout peddling falsehood as you seem to understand and worse still like now all are in agreement we vote NO.Please God has spoken through his servants we vote NO and is upon you to decide which side you will stand.Either on God’s side or the opinion of men.

    • another small point.

      We hve consistently heard from Prophet Owuor that God has said that the clergy should lead the nation to repentance, turning away from sin & living righteously. Has any of them done this? nope! This is the only way we will be able to stop the Islamic agenda

  61. Michael i totally agree with you!

  62. Zawadi and others who keep going on with what the Islam agenda is (and we shall not be ignorant of the schemes of the evil one because the space we live is not neutral) my question to you all is this; what is the Christian agenda? We seem to always be 2 steps behind and come out crying wolf when things are against us but shouldn’t we have led this entire process right from the start? This is one time that i’ll disagree with the “church” and vote with my conscience. Admittedly you and i have a big role to play in the national matters of this country but an even bigger role to play on our knees and that’s my duty to this nation. My country is going nowhere because much has been prophesied about it and my God is not a man that He should lie!

  63. And on the issue of abortion, let’s fight it from the pulpit and not from the constitution. It all boils down to our social and moral values and no constitution however eloquently put together can define values for us. You want to tackle abortion? speak to those souls about good and bad and when faced with a choice they’ll know the right thing to do!

  64. 1. Why is a National Constitution important?
    The Constitution of a nation is the most important governance document. It is the mother and father of all laws. Any law that is in conflict with the Constitution is null and void. It defines the people, their values and the nation and its destiny. Kenya’s current constitution was written in London with the help of the British colonialist. It is under review to correct past anomalies and ensure justice, fairness and equity for everyone.
    2. Why are Christians against Kadhis Courts in the Draft Constitution?
    Christians are against the inclusion of Kadhis Courts because it is an outright injustice to other religions. Kenya is a multi-religious society! Christians’ objections to the inclusion of Kadhi Courts were ignored by the government, the Constitution of Kenya Review Commission, the BOMAS gathering, the Committee of Experts and most recently the Parliamentary Select Committee. Christians are left with no choice but to vote against the new Constitution unless the Courts are removed.
    3. Are Christians against Muslims?
    No. Christians are not against Muslims. They are against injustice and unfairness in the draft constitution perpetrated by the Government and the review organs.
    4. Why didn’t Christians request for Christian Courts?
    Christians seek for a just society for all Kenyans, not only the rights of Christians. They advocated for an effective executive with an accountable President, an effective Parliament, an efficient judiciary, and respect for the rights and responsibilities that promote an equitable, just and moral values based society. The Constitution must set up a Judiciary that is good for all Kenyans.
    5. How come Kadhis Court was not identified as a contentious issue by the Committee of experts?
    Christians submitted thousands of memoranda to the Committee of Experts rejecting the inclusion of Kadhis courts in the constitution. The Committee of Experts deliberately refused to identify Kadhis Courts as a contentious issue. Instead, the Committee of Experts that was supposed to be impartial, was partisan and openly campaigned for inclusion of Kadhis Courts in the constitution. We now think it was deliberate because Muslims have dominated the Committee of Experts and the Parliamentary Select Committee.
    6. Are there Christian MPs in Parliament who can speak for Christians the way Muslim MPs do?
    There are Christian members of Parliament, but they have been silent. They have not stood for what is right and just. Church leaders are calling on Christian MPs to stand up and be counted. In future, we urge you as a citizen to vote for those people who will not sit by and watch as our country is sold out. Meanwhile, Christians must organize themselves under the Lords guidance and speak the truth even if MPs fail us.
    7. So what do Christians want?
    It is not what Christians want but rather what Kenyans want. Kenyans want a constitution that defines how society is organized on the basis of justice, truth, fairness, effective checks and balances, and an effective bill of rights for all Kenyans. With regard to religion, it should be one that provides for freedom of worship to people of all faiths under the Bill of Rights. The Constitution of Kenya must remain neutral with regard to religion, in order to offer equal protection to the people of all religions.
    8. Why are Christians opposed to Kadhis courts yet they have not harmed any body?
    The fact that the Kadhi Courts did not harm non-Muslims does not mean it was right for them to be included in the Constitution. It was wrong and discriminatory against the people of other faiths from the beginning. Kenyans’ patience since independence must not be taken for granted. It is time to correct all wrong things. Muslims should by now be an integral part of the Kenyan community not requiring special treatment or protection! The constitution must not divide the people along religious or other lines. Kenyans want one nation, one land, one law that caters for all irrespective of religious affiliation. This is the practice in stable democracies around the world. We should not let a new constitution to perpetuate past injustices. Christ said: “And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the wine will burst the skins, and both the wine and the wineskins will be ruined. No, he pours new wine into new wineskins” (Mark 2:22). Inclusion of Kadhis Courts in the new constitution is like pouring new wine into old wineskins. It will burst the skins.
    9. Who qualifies to be a Kadhi?
    A Kadhi is a Muslim judge or magistrate. While many claim that the Kadhi is a purely judicial officer who serves in a Kadhis Court, they in Kenya they perform religious functions. The Chief Kadhi declares the beginning of Ramadhan a major Muslim religious festival. As an officer of government, it is discriminatory that, to be a Kadhi, one must profess the MUSLIM RELIGION. This means even if a Christian possesses knowledge of the MUSLIM LAW applicable to any SECTS OF MUSLIMS, he cannot serve as a Kadhi, meanwhile Muslims can preside over cases of non Muslims!
    10. What law does Kadhis Court enforce?
    Kadhis Courts enforce Islamic law commonly referred to as Sharia. Sharia is the Arabic word where our Kiswahili word Sheria is borrowed from. Sharia is the law system based on the the Koran, the Sunna, older Arabic law systems, parallel traditions, and the work of Muslim scholars over the two first centuries of Islam.
    11. What are the implications of the inclusion of Kadhis Courts in the Constitution?
    The inclusion of Islamic Sharia courts in the constitution divides Kenyans along religious lines. It would reinforce two classes of Kenyans, Muslims and the rest. Kenyans are seeking a constitution that unites.
    12. Is the draft constitution Christian?
    No. The draft Constitution is a collection of all just and fair laws from any source where they may be found. It draws from Judeo-Christian principles of equality, fairness, justice and equity does not make it Christian! These are values recognized by people from all religions, ethnic communities or professional backgrounds. We as Kenyans do not want a Christian or Muslim or Hindu constitution. We want a Kenyan constitution made by all Kenyans for all Kenyans. Unfortunately, as it is now, the constitution appears to be Islamic! It mentions the word Muslim 6 times, and Kadhis 5 times. It does not mention the word Christian at all!
    13. What have Christians proposed?
    That the Constitution recognizes every Kenyans freedom of worship. That every Kenyan worships and submits to the religion they choose at their own cost and not government’s cost. We appeal that all religious beliefs and practices be left to the Churches, Mosques and Temples where they belong.
    14. Did Jomo Kenyatta agree with the Sultan to entrench Kadhis Court in the constitution?
    No. Kenyatta undertook to the Sultan of Zanzibar to only preserve the jurisdiction of Kadhis courts. The Kadhi was to operate in the ten mile Coastal strip. While Section 66 of the current constitution provides that the Chief Kadhi and the Kadhis “shall each be empowered to hold a Kadhis court having jurisdiction within the former Protectorate or within such part of the former Protectorate as may be so prescribed”, the government violated the constitution and established Kadhis Courts in areas which are outside the ten mile coastal strip like. Christians filed a case in court to challenge this wanton violation of the constitution of Kenya.
    15. If Christians succeed in rejecting the constitution during the referendum, will we not still have Kadhis Courts under the current Constitution any way?
    Christians are actively involved in this matter and will not stop at a No vote at the referendum. Christians filed a case in the High Court in 2004 to declare Kadhis Court unconstitutional. The hearing ended in February 2009. It is regrettable that time has lapsed and the High Court is yet to deliver the judgment. Christians will next sponsor a motion in Parliament to amend the current constitution to delete section 66 which provides for Kadhis Court.
    16. Should Kenyans reject the draft constitution just because it has Kadhis Courts?
    Yes. If you had a soda with a small amount of poison, would you drink it? Let us not be deceived by people who either do not have the interest of Kenya at heart or are unable to see divisiveness of this issue. If they are serious and want us to accept the new constitution, let them delete all references to the Kadhis Court in the constitution.
    17. Is it true that the Bill of Rights shall not apply to Muslims?
    Yes. Muslims are the only Kenyans who are allowed to violate the Bill of Rights. Kenyans should not allow this to happen. Let every Kenyan be equal before the law of the land and particularly the Bill of Rights.
    18. If Christians succeed in rejecting the Kadhis Court, will the Muslims unleash violence?
    No. Christians and Kenyans in general should not allow themselves to be manipulated and intimidated by the threat of violence. Kenya is a democracy, Muslims must argue with ideas and the ballot box, not violence. In any case, it is hoped that Muslims in Kenya are peace loving and will respect the decision of Kenyans. The threat by some Muslim leaders to secede from Kenya is a matter that the security forces are able to handle.
    19. What about abortion?
    Abortion is the willful termination of a woman’s pregnancy on the basis that it is unwanted. A woman may herself be under pressure because she desires to hide the fact or may be under pressure from other person(s) for the same reasons
    20. When does life begin?
    Life begins at Conception. All doctors who claim that life begins at birth are professionally untrustworthy, because the fetus in the mother’s womb are usually alive. Whenever a fetus dies, it is always an emergency to operate and to remove it.
    21. What do Pro-abortionists want?
    Their interest is to make money from vulnerable women. In the course of the abortion process the life of the woman is endangered, their conscience and faith are trashed and they become guilty of murder.
    22. What does God say about the life of the unborn?
    The unborn babies are complete human beings created in the image of God. Any one who aborts them is a murderer. God called Jeremiah in the mother’s womb (Jer. 1:4-5). When Mary after she became pregnant met Elizabeth, John leaped in her womb to rejoice at Jesus. (Lk 1:41-44). God commanded that His people in the sixth commandment, ‘Thou shalt not kill.’ (Ex 20:13) Abortion is murder, the killing of the unborn innocents.
    23. Does anti-abortion law hinder the practice of medicine?
    No. The constitution allows a doctor, upon medical examination of a pregnant woman, to terminate a pregnancy if the life of the mother faces a medical condition that leads to the death of both mother and baby.
    24. What about Marriage?
    The Constitution must state that Marriage in Kenya is between two adults of the opposite sex. It must not allow any type of marriage which God calls an abomination. For us as Kenyans, let us pray that God blesses our men and women to form godly and healthy marriages.
    25. What can I do as a Kenyan?
    As a citizen of this nation you must make your voice heard on these matters! You also need to do the following:
    You must read and understand the draft Constitution personally
    Petition your Members of Parliament to delete all the sections referring to Kadhis Courts, or that introduce any unacceptable laws in the Constitution.
    Register yourself as a voter, and ensure all your friends register as voters. If Kadhis Courts, pro-abortion laws are included in the constitution ensure that all your friends and yourself vote NO at the referendum.
    Photocopy this paper and pass it to at least 10 more people in your area.

    • Amefica, I am christians and I know hundreds of others who are born again christians but who support the inclusion of kadhis in the constitution and do not mind the language of Article 26 on abortion. Where do you draw your support when you say christians want to reject kadhis courts?The fact is that christians are divided right in the middle on these issues, hence the referendum vote

    • Excellent write up there…. keep it up!

  65. Hiram,
    What do you have to say about number 14 on the article posted by Amefica?

  66. Michael, with pleasure! Amefica says

    ” 14. Did Jomo Kenyatta agree with the Sultan to entrench Kadhis Court in the constitution?
    No. Kenyatta undertook to the Sultan of Zanzibar to only preserve the jurisdiction of Kadhis courts. The Kadhi was to operate in the ten mile Coastal strip. While Section 66 of the current constitution provides that the Chief Kadhi and the Kadhis “shall each be empowered to hold a Kadhis court having jurisdiction within the former Protectorate or within such part of the former Protectorate as may be so prescribed”, the government violated the constitution and established Kadhis Courts in areas which are outside the ten mile coastal strip like. Christians filed a case in court to challenge this wanton violation of the constitution of Kenya.

    I will answer the same by seeking the definition of the words “protectorate” from you and Amefica. Secondly, please answer me whether it is your opinion that kadhis’ courts are unconstitutional.
    Thirdly, is it your argument that kadhis’ courts should apply only to the ten mile coastal strip, and if yes, are you suggesting that we can retain them in the constitution but provide that they only apply to the ten mile coastal strip? Fourthly, if no. 3 is your argument, wont the same arguments hold water in respect of the christians living within the ten mile coastal strip? Fifthly, if the Muslims are such conniving and untrustworthy people as Amefica and Zawadi are suggesting, are we prepared to curve off kenya to allow the practise of Sheria law (through kadhis courts) at the ten mile coastal strip? I am awaiting your response

    • 1. Historical background of the coastal strip
      Below is a brief summary of notable events that led to the existence of the ten mile strip and its peculiar circumstances:
      17th century until the 19th century: The coastal strip under the control of Oman in the reign of H.H. Seyyid Said
      2nd April 1861: Zanzibar attains independence. Coastal strip falls under its control.
      1862: independence granted to Zanzibar was confirmed by Great Britain, Germany and France
      1886: the limits of the sultan’s dominion were defined by an agreement between Great Britain and Germany to cover ten nautical miles along the coast from the Menengai River at the head of Tungi Bay to Kipini.
      24th May 1887: the British East African Association (later the Imperial British East Africa Co.) received a concession for fifty years over all mainland territories from the Sultan of Zanzibar
      By 1895: the British government took up all the property rights of the company. The formal transfer of authority took place on 1st July, 1895 at Mombasa and 8th July at Lamu.
      At the Mombasa ‘baraza’ Sir Lord Matthews, the Wazir of the Sultan made a proclamation to the effect that all affairs connected with the faith of Islam will be conducted to the honor and benefit of religion, and all ancient customs will be allowed to Continue,’ and his wish is that everything should be done in accordance with justice and law.
      This statement is relied on as proof of the permission granted to persons in the protectorate at that time to establish Kadhi courts in support of their religious system.
      It should however be noted that the 1895 agreement between Great Britain and Zanzibar was withdrawn upon Kenya’s independence with the coming into effect of the agreement between the government of the United Kingdom, his Highness the Sultan of Zanzibar, the government of Kenya and the government of Zanzibar signed on 8th October 1963.
      1895-1962: No change of affairs in the administration of the Protectorate. However in 1962, as independence approaches, there is unrest by the Islamic community on the Protectorate fearing discrimination in independent Kenya as they were a minority. On the report of a Commission the Secretary Of State of the Colonies and Chief Minister of Zanzibar make a Joint statement in which following statement is noted:
      You can read this:
      Sessional paper No. 9 of 1961 Kenya coastal strip – report of the Commisioner para 2 and 18

  67. The analogy of a soda and poison is not appropriate because we have been sipping this poison for the last 50 years and we have not died. This poison is certainly not deadly and we should not be afraid of it. The question I ask myself is this. This new constitution has the potential to bring relief to many who are oppressed and marginalised in the land and avert situations like that which occurred in 2007/2008. Yet the church which is suppossed to champion justice is telling the nation to reject it because of some poison which we have been sipping and will continue sipping even when we reject this constitution. Am I wrong to deduce that the church has a misplaced priority? Is the church so intoxicated by its sense of mission that it would rather as a nation we continue with the volatile situation that has been our lot these past 50 years or is it that she is not aware of the oppression this current situation has brought on the people all these years? Is there justification on perpetuating oppresion in the quest of being right? I pray but I dont always get the answer to my prayer. That does not in anyway give me license to fight to get what I want. I trust that God can make a way for me even when he does not answer me the way I expected. The church has been praying for this constitution and yet they have consistentlty been ignored. The church should be asking herslf why God is not answering. Could it be that God has an issue with the church which she should quickly correct inorder to regain her standing or is it that God has no problem with the constitution the way it is. Personally I think the church would do herself more good by looking inwards instead of outside.

  68. i What i may arge my fellow brethren, and all
    Kenyans concerning this constitution war, we shold not
    be fooled by the people who are self-centered and
    selfish.
    The Abotion issue, Khadhi court issue and a
    few more which are in question cannot be
    compared with the more good things which are in this
    Draft constitution, especially if we can consider the
    carent constitution of which we will remain with if we
    refuse to pass this Draft constitution and we will
    remain under supretion many other generations.
    Futhermore, surpose we require from specialist Dr.
    what their law says when the mother is in danger on a
    derivery bed, with or without the constitution they ussuary terminate the life of the foeter to safe the
    mother.

  69. Janice,
    The church is saying we can stop the process briefly, negotiate the contentious issues and go to the referendum without dividing the nation. Then we can enjoy the fruits all of us.

  70. Hiram,
    Muthiora seems to have shed light on your question. Secondly i ask, will the rights of muslims be trampled upon if the kadhi courts is not in the constitution? The muslims are not a minority any more, the christians have never interfered with the muslims-so what is the worry-is it that the muslims want us to pay for the practise of their religion? This is why Christians are reading between the lines because the muslims rights to worship will not be affected at all if kadhi courts are removed from the constitution.

  71. I have already answered the question you ask earlier but wont tire repeating the answer. Removal of kadhis’ courts from the constitution will make the same unconstitutional. You will note that all courts are anchored in the constitution and derive their legitimacy therefrom. In the event any is removed, then they have to be scrapped altogether. The same fate will befall the kadhis courts. Muthiora seems to buttress the point I have been making. Mainland Kenya was given sovereignty over the ten mile coastal strip on condition that muslims will be allowed to practise Islamic law and be governed in their personal law by islamic law as administered by Kadhis courts. Since they were a minority, this protection could only be assured by inclusion of kadhis courts in the constitution. Muslims in my view are still threatened. If the views of some christians that I have read in this blog are anything to go by, they need protection more than they have ever needed. Some people stop short of calling muslims terrorists and somalis. YES they need protection.

  72. Michael, I need to also add that the dispute here does not touch on the right of worship, but administration of disputes touching on personal law.

  73. I found your blog on google and read a few of your other posts. I just added you to my Google News Reader. Keep up the good work Look forward to reading more from you in the future.

  74. am with church leaders i trust them better than politicians i still believe church leaders have unbiased and well intended plan for this nation.only church can stop secular humanism which will attract curse of GOD ON OUR LAND.GO go go go church am praying for am behind i even took my vote yesterday to support you.

  75. As Christians we need to have more discussion and find our unity read on….

    The Unity Of The Faith
    By Pastor Andre Butler

    The phrase “unity of the faith” implies that the faith is defined by its unity. Christianity is supposed to bring about unity. Before you were saved, you lived in a world that was splintered, a world that was fighting against itself. When you became a Christian, you were born into a family that is supposed to be unified.

    The word “unity” means oneness, and in this scripture we see that God wills that the church, indeed, the Body of Christ, becomes unified. How are all of us–from different backgrounds and with different ideas and different walks of life–supposed to be unified?

    This happens when we grow up spiritually, when our love walk has developed to a place where we are able to be in unity with our brothers and sisters in the Lord. Now they may do things we do not like–they may get on our nerves or stab us in the back–but when we have grown spiritually to the point of loving our neighbor as Christ loved us, we will be able to stay in the oneness of the faith, which is unity.

    Every person has a human body. If you do not have a human body, you do not have a legal right to operate on this planet. When one part of your natural body fights against another part of your body–and that actually what happens when people have certain diseases–the body can no longer be effective. In fact, the body may no longer operate. Likewise, the body of Christ cannot survive when its members are fighting one against another. It is supposed to operate as one. There should be no schism, no division, in the body.

    It is not the will of God that there be so many denominations in the body of Christ that you can’t remember all the names. It is not the will of God that this denomination fights against that denomination. It is not the will of God that people within the local church fight one another. No, God’s plan is that the body be one. And since that is true, it is important that we do what is necessary to keep ourselves unified, to operate as one.

    The Body of Christ is a big Holy Ghost gang. We are to be unified when we go before the world. If Satan wants to pick off one of us, he has to deal with all of us. First Corinthians 12 says that if one us suffers, we all are suffering; if one of us is rejoicing, we all are rejoicing. When the world sees believers, God’s desire is that they see us all walking in unity, prospering in every area of life, and producing for Him.

    Jesus intends for our unity to be not only a spiritual reality but a literal reality–something people can see. When this is the case, it will cause them to not only believe in God, but in His son Jesus Christ. Our unity is a sign and a wonder to the world.

    Scripture Of The Day: “And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; or if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.” – 1 Corinthians 12:26 (NKJV)

  76. Hiram,

    All i want is Kadhi courts to be legislated by acts of parliament and to be completely out of the constitution.

    I have friends who are suffering in Jos Nigeria and i have a responsibility to avert such a thing ever happening in kenya!

    Ask your self, 22% of the wealth and properties in America are owned by Muslims/Arabs, how come they are able to operate there without personalized constitutionalized marriage and business laws! Cant you ask yourself what other agenda they have in Kenya they need this extra protection? There are more muslims in Ghana than in Kenya, how come they are able to operate without kadhi courts?

    You have to be very ignorant not to see the Abuja agenda and i advice again read, research..

    • Hiram, just so that you know. Kadhi courts were instituted by acts of Parliament in the 70’s hence they are currently all over the country. I was shocked to learn this myself but do your research and you’ll find out. My issue remains, as christians we have a much bigger role to play than fighting the advancements of Kadhi courts. Where will you be a a christian when all this is happening?

      • Kadhis courts were not instituted by acts of parliament in the 70s as you put it. The origin of the kadhis courts is section 66 of the constitution. On the basis of the constitution, the kadhis courts Act was then passed into law on the 8th of January 1967. Look at the Act itself, it speaks of itself, there’s no need to wallow in rumours and half truths. As a christian, i feel that it is my solemn duty to fight for and protect the rights of the minority, be they muslims, christians, of whoever. The reason why I fight for the protection not “advancement” as you put it seeing that the current draft does not advance but retains the same is that I have an obligation to love my brother as i do myself, brother is not limited to christian. Secondly, I have a duty to keep peace with my neighbour and live at peace with all men, which peace my be taken by the abolitionists of the kadhis courts. Do you know that there is an internationally legally binding agreement for kenya to protect the interests of muslims otherwise they have a right to secede and to have the coastal strip revert to the jurisdiction of zanzibar. Is that what “christians” are advocating? If there is a real fear, it is not the fear that muslims may take over this country, it is that kenya risks falling into the likes of sudan as a result of what christians are advocating for in the name of God!

  77. Christians, at this point let us all pray that something, yes, something dramatic will happen and get us a constitutions that is devoid of Kadhi’s courts. If we believe, let’s us pray. If it doesn’t happen before the vote, we vote NO and still believe that something dramatic will happen and we get the constitution that befits Kenyans and honors God.

    Remember this, our battle is not carnal….

  78. I am Christian and Born again, and not born against. what i don’t understand from my christian brothers and sisters who are opposed to the katiba on the issue of abortion, which is supreme, the bible or the katiba? Why are our Muslim brothers not talking about the issue of abortion.? which should we ‘fear’ the katiba or our Lord Jesus? Doesn’t this show that we have failed to teach our people to fear God and the Holy Bible? If you fear Him you will not be bothered on issues of SIN, for abortion is a SIN. Let us tell the Christians abortion is a sin whether it is in constitution or not. Let us return the people to God through the Power and Authority given to us prayer the Bible and proper teachings and not through katiba!! it is just secondary to a true believer of Christ.

  79. The truth of the matter is that we all need a fair constitution. It’ll be too unfortunate to endorse a constitution that is unfair and coiled to promote a particular religion with state resources. I earnest pray that Christians will have their eyes opened, stand up and say a big NO to anything Islamic in the new constitution. We have enough examples of the hostilities, trauma and intimidation that come with Islamic policies… Let’s keep religious matters out of state and live in harmony as Kenyans. Allowing the Kadhis courts in the constitution is creating unnecessary misunderstanding between Islam and other religions in the country.

    Let’s register and vote this draft out… we’ve been waiting and we can wait longer… until we get a fair constitution. Why get a fake constitution for the sake of a constitution? Above all, let’s remain in prayer as it’s the most powerful weapon.

    • Amen Brother.We can non hurry to get something that is distorted.We’re ready to wait.God bless

  80. My support for the church is based on the understanding l have for the proposed constitution. Unless the clause on kadhi courts is removed even if am the only one voting againist it, l still would. I believe the decision l make today affects the generations to come.
    Same case with Abortion, IT IS MURDER. No question about it. Wether sugar coated or not.
    Why give room for a sin that God made it so clear that we shall not commit?

  81. Amefica, what is the exact foundation of your fear against kadhis’ courts? what is it that muslims are going to do now which they havent done since independence? what prejudice will the continued existance of kadhis’ courts in the constitution occasion christians? are the chaos in Jos Nigeria occasioned by Kadhis’ courts? are you advocating for “ganging up” of christians against Muslims on unfounded rumours and allegations of some “hidden agenda”. My christianity is not founded on fear and unfounded rumours. Why cant you paste the document containing the “Islamic agenda” to enable all of us benefit therefrom? I have been waiting for someone to convince me to vote No, but so far, nothing substantive has been advanced. God is a God of reason. Look at Isaiah 1.18.

    • Hiram one thing you should know is that democracy has never existed in the Bible.Remember when Samuel anointed Saul to lead the children of Israel when they had stood up and openly refused to be led by the Lord.They told Samuel we want someone like us so that we may be like other nations.Samuel is the only person who voted on God’s side and Saul became the worst king.Do you think it’s God’s will for all this Kadhis and abotion to be inshrined in our constitution.Whom do you fear!God or opinion of men who do not know the Lord.No Pastor can come and stand on the pulpit and encourage the people to say no without hearing God’s mind.Personaly iam behind our pastors and so should you.pls read
      Hebrews 10:30 and 1st timothy4 and Colosians 3

  82. For the ones advocating for prayers to have a constitution devoid of kadhis’ courts, i’d pray that you amend your prayers that God may show you his will concerning the same instead of asking that let us have a constitution without them. The prayer risks dismissal.

  83. For the prophets of doom saying that the draft will not pass, have you received some divine light which you want to share with us or are these allegations based on some subjective conviction?

  84. Hiram,

    And who are these prophets of doom?! I don’t like this language of yours. Let’s talk after the referendum. We only have to options: Yes or No. And by the way, Prayer is always relevant. Yes, even when we do not understand what to do or how to vote. It is the only place Christians can draw wisdom. He will always direct us to the right path. Pray earnestly and vote wisely.

  85. I do not think that the church has any reason for killing the reform process. I believe church leaders want to see a good constitution that conforms to the teachings of the Bible. And at the same time not elevating institutions of one religion above others. If all religions demand their institutions to be funded by the state, we would not have funds for development

    As a christian, I cannot vote for a draft that permit abortion. this is murder of the innocent on a wholesale scale. The life in the womb also has a right to live.

  86. Hiram,
    unless you are a muslim mascarading here to be a Christian, let me remind you to be gentle. there is no need to be bitter.

  87. Can we continue and trust our MP’s to not to make laws that do support abortion .Are they not the same MP’s who fail to support anti tobacco and drown important bills and trading their support for cash.Lets not be fooled, We can get an agreeable constitution.The previous one failed and we still came up with this one. I believe a better constitution can be made enhancing equality among religions and upholding our morals and values while protecting the basic source of lie.Where we came from…I vote NO> unless changes are made.

  88. It is very ridiculous when politicians and the media say the church should not complain since the kadhis courts are in the current constitution. I thought we want a new constitution because the current one is bad. What is the use of a new constitution if the current one is good enough! Are we simply voting for the current constitution that has simply been revised? Simply put, kadhis Courts are a Muslim affair, im NOT a Muslim i will vote NO!

  89. You cannot seperate the church and state/politics. Brothers and sisters if the bible does not advocate abortion then why should we allow it in our constitution. how sure are we that when we pass the constitution the clause will soon be ammended. Just remember this, when the anger of the Lord will be against our nation each one of us will be affected in one way or the other. Just imagine yourself in kadhis court just because there has been a misunderstanding between you and a muslim I just cannot imagine what the sentence would be, just look at Sudan etc and decide for yourself. The issue here is not about geting a new constitution, it’s all about getting the right constitution.
    Guys let’s be realistic God doesn’t like it, abortion is killing and killing is sin. Lets say no to SIN!

  90. the church is GOD’S voice on earth and the only way people can know what GOD is saying is through the leaders.it is every ones democratic right to vote as they feel also so no one should be condemned for airing their views.we vote GOD’S agenda in JESUS MIGHTY NAME

  91. Well, this is a very critical condition in our country. the bible says that we ask of the nation and God will give to us for a possession. The Lord has called us to occupy till he comes. We should hate what God hates and love what God loves. As a matter of fact, the politicians can not determine the destiny of this nation. Kenya belongs to God and we cant stand the argument about the constitution. We are saying a VERY BIG NO to the draft, no controversy.

  92. Very nice information.

  93. Hi People,

    alot of things have been said about this debate so i need not say more. The only thing i would like to say is God’s people should never fear being on the minority. Whatever stand you take, as long as you are sure its inspired by God, stick to it!

  94. How will the people know we are the salt if we don’t take astand as a community of Believers.I like what Bro John Ng’ang’a preched in npc valleyroad recently.He said the only decision you have to make as abeliever is when you get saved.The rest is the Lord who leads through his holyspirit and his servants the priests.We have to support the preachers standing on God’s side on this constituiton and support what they say lest we be like Miriam who was struck for desobeying Moses.The problem im finding with the christians is the way they’re atacking the Bishops who lead them in when they’re invited in woldly forums until people in the world cannot be atracted to come to Church.Pls let us respect the men God is using.We may be shouting and later find we’re fighting against the Lord.God’s blessings

  95. Our weapons are mighty through God! So we say NO to this constitution!

    Nehemiah’s Union – A Work Of Faith!
    By Pastor Paula White

    Recently, the congregation of our church, Without Walls International Church in Tampa, Florida, joined together for 52 days of prayer, dedication, and consecration, as we studied and explored the Book of Nehemiah. This chapter of the Bible recounts how, under the leadership of Nehemiah, the surviving Jews worked together to complete the rebuilding of the wall of Jerusalem within 52 days – an incredibly efficient feat of faith and team work, after the generations it had taken to rebuild the fallen city and temple.

    For our church it was a time to come together in a joined commitment to strengthen, repair, and renew our faith and hope in the plans God had promised for our church and our families. It was a time to study God’s Word, and learn from and be inspired by a great man of God. Studying the work Nehemiah spearheaded and accomplished, as he joined with other like minds to restore God’s glory to Jerusalem, was a powerful lesson for each of us, as we dedicated the 52 day period to our corporate and personal goals and visions for the future.

    The Book of Nehemiah chapters 1 and 2 recount how Nehemiah, Jewish cupbearer to the King of Persia, discovers that his beloved Jerusalem is still in disarray, and is granted by the King the opportunity to go for a while to help his people and his fallen city. Chapter 3 goes on to recount the many people – high priests and priests, sons, fathers and daughters, goldsmiths, apothecaries, landowners, citizens, and merchants — who came together to work with Nehemiah. Section by section, gate by gate, they stood shoulder to shoulder to complete the task. It was a union of unity and faith – and even in the face of detractors and nay-sayers, they completed the task through perseverance, persistence, and commitment – knowing that, as Nehemiah said, “the hand of God” was on them.

    Considering that it had previously taken generations just to rebuild the temple, what Nehemiah was able to accomplish was nearly miraculous. I believe that as modern day Christians we can learn a lot about what a unified body can accomplish by studying what Nehemiah and his “union” were able to do.

    When members of the body of Christ join together with a unified goal, vision, or commitment, as God’s people we are able to complete the same kinds of powerful accomplishments that Nehemiah’s ‘union’ was able to do. When we come together with a God-given purpose, we too can be sure that He will honor our handiwork. When our goals and visions as a unified body join together to achieve God-inspired purposes, we are about our Father’s business – assuring that His “will be done on earth, as it is in Heaven.”

    Shoulder to shoulder, side to side, each completing his or her portion of the task, in full agreement with leadership and each other, in firm agreement — and with faith that the goal is righteous and will further God’s designs for His people and His kingdom on earth. This is how Nehemiah’s union rebuilt the wall in 52 days and this is how we can collectively accomplish greatness and make an impact for the Kingdom in our world today. So let us go forward in unity, as one body in Christ…and watch how God will lay His hand upon our works of faith as well.
    Scripture Of The Day: Then I said to them, “You see the distress that we are in, how Jerusalem lies waste, and its gates are burned with fire. Come and let us build the wall of Jerusalem, that we may no longer be a reproach.” – Nehemiah 2:17v (NKJV)

  96. Let’s not despice our Pastors they watch over uor souls and will give an account for you. As christians we are divided ‘cos some of us don’t take christianity as a way of live. Your prospherity and of this nation will depend on our you believe His servants( II chron. 20:20).
    True to Bible this are the days when Evil is being called Good and Good Evil in Kenya today. If as christian i will be funding Islamic practices through Kadhi court which now will be now a Govnt. institution will it not be against christian my standing?.
    Let’s make constitution Kenyans and Not for Muslims and other Kenyans.

  97. Its really disheartening to note that christians canot think for themselves.During the time of jesus he told his disciples to be wary of the teachings of the pharisees.Why and they were teachers of the law which was derived from the five books of the old testament?.I am urging those who want to make it to heaven to also note that jesus said that many will come in the last day and say we used to perform miracles in your name but the lord will reject them.Don’t you think these will have been pastors or preachers snce no pagan ,muslim,or non believer is likely to perform miracles in the name of jesus.My point is somply this why don’t you as a person read the bible to KNOW WHAT JESUS SAID!Why only listen to the pastor? Is he now a replacement of the Bible?.The Bereans examined the scriptures to see if what paul said was true.And who was paul ? He was the man jesus appeared to on his way to Damascus and he could perform miracles.Brothers and sisters satan is more active today than you or me may think or ever know.The same applies to thjis constitution.Do not let your ability to reason on yourself be taken away from you.When all is said and done whether you and me did the will of God will determine where we end up Read John 12 46-47.Jesus said his words will judge you and me on the last day.Read the verse before you conclude am not telling the truth please.How dissapointing when me and you end up in hell because we never bothered to read the bible on ourselves.

  98. REFER TO THE SCRIPTURES SORRY ITS NOT JOHN 12 46-47 BUT JOHN12: 46-48.THE BEREANS STORY IS IN ACTS 17VERSE 11-12 THE STORY ON JESUS WARNING ON PHARISEES IS MATHEW 23:1 -11.PLEASE READ THESE SCRIPTURES BEFORE YOU REPLY .DO NOT REPLY BEFORE YOU READ PLEASE IT WILL BE UNFAIR.

  99. What is sad about the whole discussion on the constitution is that it has been turned into a christian/muslim fight which is not the case. It is lame that the argument for retaining the Kadhi’s courts is that they are there in the current constitution because we are trying to make a constitution that is both new and good. So we drop what divides us and include and retain what will unite us. Why was the clause on equal treatment of all religions by the state stuck off? And why are we not so vocal about it? That may be more dangerous than having the kadhi’s courts.

    What about the regional governments? What is the guarantee in the constitution that the civil servants from other parts of a country will receive equal treatment in regions that are dominated by people from other communities? What clauses advocate for reconciliation and healing, or is this not an issue to be addressed in a constitution? We are divided along tribal lines, why lie? We need a constitution that unites us otherwise we continue killing each other every 5 years like we have done for close to twenty years now. The church leadership is not killing the constitution, to me they just lack the insight on what really ails Kenya.

    I am frustrated with our leaders because what they are saying should have been said months ago and the threats to shoot down the constitution should have been aired when there was still a chance to negotiate. They have said they tried, but when not listened to they never reacted as strongly as they are doing now.

    And what about the public contradiction statements we get from them? When will they ever learn?Even after the mess of 2007, we haven’t learnt United we stand, and they have to lead the way and God will hold them and all of us accountable for the way we used the opportunities He placed our way. We may pass this constitution or we may not, its a personal decision, but there are grave dangers in there and we shall discover one day when it is too late. It reminds me of the song ‘Slow fade’ trouble doesn’t come in a day and it affects one person at a time. Before we discover its an epidemic, we are in deep trouble. that will happen with abortion issues, Kadhi’s courts and regional governments.

  100. I stand with the Pastors and the decision they will make for Kenyan church to follow. For If you say you’re christian who seats under a pastor and you cannot trust or believe him as a servant of God, you better look for another pastor whom you can trust to follow his instructions if not better keep quiet rather than pointing a fingure to them.
    If the politicians as they are shouting for the constitution were visionaries of this country as they claim, this nation would have been far in the right direction but they are not. Is it inorder for you & me being christians to joining politicians, because of their popularity in our tribes, to demonise pastors? far from it, the intrest of pastors is better kenya
    for all.
    Both those who are for YES or NO agree that there is ammendment to be done and the issue is when it should be done thats where the contention is.
    The church is saying ammendment to be done now before voting. Mind you its the King who needs a Preist and NOT vise versa.
    Listen to Pastors and compliy.

  101. I stand with the Pastors and the decision they will make for Kenyan church to follow. For If you say you’re christian who seats under a pastor and you cannot trust or believe him as a servant of God, you better look for another pastor whom you can trust to follow his instructions if not better keep quiet rather than pointing a fingure to them.
    If the politicians as they are shouting for the constitution were visionaries of this country as they claim, this nation would have been far in the right direction but they are not. Is it inorder for you & me being christians to joining politicians, because of their popularity in our tribes, to demonise pastors? far from it, the intrest of pastors is better kenya
    for all.
    Both those who are for YES or NO agree that there is ammendment to be done and the issue is when it should be done thats where the contention is.
    The church is saying ammendment to be done now before voting. Mind you its the King who needs a Preist and NOT vise versa.
    Listen to Pastors and compliy.
    The church is not killing the reform deal but perfecting it.

  102. Very crucial questions that the Church needs to address were raised. I understand the foundational discourse surrounding a constitution but, however good a constitution can be, can it fix moral issues? Whereas the draft doesnt legalise abortion, there have been several abortions even in our current state. I hold the opinion that we should go back to the basic, the hammer, the two edged sword- the bible to guide us in christian morality. If we look at the constitution for such help, we shall be miserable. Cant the Church stand in trying moments? Does the church have any strategy to win the lost world? Or ours is to mourn at how the muslims have stretegised? What would Jesus do in our current state? Definately not what we are now doing. We have missed the point. I wont be party to this. However, just like in the political arena, church leadership is undergoing a major reconstruction. God is raising up a new crop of leaders who will be able identify and listen to His voice. It is OK.

  103. Kenyans can only conver to islam if majority of kenyans convert to islam and abortion will always be there no matter how stringet abortion laws are made including death penalty.SOLUTION
    UBIRI MPAKA WATU WASIWE WAISLAMU NA WAISLAMU WAACHE UISLAMU WAWE WAKRISTO.KNOW FOR SURE WHEN ALL KENYANS CONVERT TO ISLAM KENYA WILL BECOME AN ISLAMIC STATE EVEN IF AT THAT TIME OUR CONSTITUTION WILL HAVE BECOME THE BIBLE.
    AS for abortion preach until kenyans become faithfull and stop immorality so no abortion.

  104. The effective cure to abortion is to teach the churchgoers to obey the word of God and stop aborting.The only way to stop islamization of Kenya is for christians to put the word of God into practise.Currently christians preach water but drink wine in the presence of muslims.They abort as well.The question is why do they do that and abortion is illegal currently and what will will stop them from doing the same even if the clauses are changed to read the way they are now? If all Kenyans become muslims then Kenya will become an islamic state whether the church leaders like it or not.

  105. I fully support the church,God has put them in authority to lead us.I advice those “christians” that are criticizing our church leaders to vote whichever way they want but as for me am following our church leaders.

  106. Kamau,
    I agree that the preaching of the gospel will deal with some of the issues. Despite this, we need to know that we are still in this world and will need to solve certain things spiritually and others physically. The two views are very important and one cannot work without the other. So the conclusion is, let us preach and also let us stand against anything that infringes on our rights as Kenyans. As much as Iam a Christian Iam also a Kenyan.

  107. Hiram,

    You were asking me what the muslims will do that they haven’t already done since independence? Please see the article from Nation of 28th April. This is just a tip of the iceberg of what they will do if they islamize our constitution.

    Now Supkem ‘bans’ DStv in North Eastern

    By NATION Correspondent
    Posted Monday, April 26 2010 at 22:31

    DStv has been banned in North Eastern Province by the Supreme Council of Kenya Muslims.

    Also outlawed are video dens, blamed for eroding moral values among the youth and causing poor academic performance.

    The Supkem Mandera branch shut down dozens of entertainment spots that air popular video shows and football, “in support of Islamic teachings.”

    The region is predominantly Muslim and the religious leaders said Islamic teachings had to be followed to the letter.

    The move was quickly supported by the Supkem head office, which promised to extend the ban to other towns in the province.

    Statement

    MultiChoice Kenya, which operates the DStv channels, would not comment immediately.

    “We are still monitoring development and will release a statement tomorrow (Tuesday),” said public relations manager Stella Ondimu.

    Information minister Mr Samuel Phogisio criticised the move by the Sheikhs.

    He said that Kenyans subscribe to the service mainly because of the local and international football games broadcast by the station.

    The minister pointed out that the Constitution protects Kenyans’ right to assemble. The ban, he said was a violation of such rights.

    “Kenyans in Mandera also have a right to what they view,” he said.

    According to him, the Islamic leaders do not have powers to ban the service.

  108. I reject and we should all reject any contracts or be they covenants made by kenyatta with some sultan or any contracts or covenants made by our current politicians with the muslims. We are not afraid and are not going to be intimidated! We are writing a new constitution for us NOW in this AGE and we say A BIG NO to kadhi courts! We are here to break such contracts and covenants for our children to live in blessing and peace.

  109. Reading this blog and the many other comments has reaffirmed my resolve to vote! Last week the Rt Hon Prime Minister made a comment at the elders conference and i quote verbatim

    “lakini kama ni mimba ya mwezi moja, miezi miwili miezi mitatu ni maisha gani inaokolewa Kitu ambaye haina mikono hata macho itaokolewa namna gani” for additional reference watch pixspeak on citizen tv http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF74bKIuqWw

    made me realize that truly its no longer about the good parts in the constitution but the poison in it. Additionally and from this clip you realize that the elders laughed telling me that the true issue is whether we have our identity as Kenyans protected by this draft and whether our hearts are genuine to allow Gods will in every area of life. Lets us not forget that we serve a God who honors covenants and so if we agree to a bad covenant God wont protect us from the bad clauses but He will allow us to suffer the consequences of our(including parents) decisions: 2 Samuel 21 the story of the Gibeonites aptly confirms this position.

    We must Pray a lot more harder than normal and Yes we must act through registering as voters and voting NO

    • If I had not heard the PM myself I would deduce from your statement that he is advocating for abortion. That is not the impression I got when I heard that statement. He was explaining the abortion clause and why it was neccessary to qualify that whereas abortion is not permitted there should be a window for termination if the life of a mother is in danger and one has to choose between the life of a grown woman who has other children to support and that which you have reported above. The statement was preceeded by a statement that personally he would not advocate for abortion but would be in a dillema if faced with the above situation. But then according to you he is lying just like the statement ” Abortion is not permiited” in the constitution is a lie. It is such a mindset that makes me and others wary of believing anything said cause your perceptions have already been set on them against you so everything they say must be construed in the worst possible light. If I follow you then I’ll end up being paranoid and inheriting hatreds whose source I do not understand. No, thanks. I dont add to the cause of God by being spiteful and telling half truths. I’ll guard my heart with all deligence until you come down from your high octane level and begin to state facts without threats and dissembling.

      • @ Janice Thanks for the response and sorry for my delay. I choose to clarify as follows; I have listened to the prime minister 3 times in the last week make the same statement!!. I do not take this position based on pushing spite or half truths but the fact that we seem to allow our consciences to be dulled by the many rhetorical statements that are being loudly repeated. Is a fetus of one two or three months any less a person to be made a joke out of or callously discussed in public barazas and yes campaigns? I personally wrote to the PM to clarify with no response to date. The bare facts are we need to soberly ask ourselves if our continued conversations are based on being too pious, too accommodating and always at pains to apologize for our faith.

        The clause from the draft constitution reads as follows

        (4) Abortion is not permitted unless, in the opinion of a trained health professional, there is need for emergency treatment, or the life or health of the mother is in danger, or if permitted by any other written law.

        a)What is the definition of a health professional in the current draft? Is it defined as a medical doctor or any other health professional like a counselor can make the call.
        b)What is this about it being permitted by any other written law? The same constitution indicates that international laws shall be adopted locally without due diligence as should be the case of it going through parliamentary debate where international laws are localized to take care our ethos

        These are the days when we should arise and allow God to be God and engage the systems through prayer and with wisdom from above and not shy away from the realities of the covenant we are being drawn into. I choose to also pray, love those with a differing opinion and remain focused on our higher calling in Christ.

  110. For the past one week, i have read without comment, the comments in this blog with a lot of amusement. First, I must answer the issue raised by Amefica in respect of the ban by SUPKEM of dstv in north eastern, by raising a few questions. Is it the Kadhis who issued this edict or muslim leaders? How do they propose to enforce their edicts? I wonder? Why because they have no power at all to make these statements neither can they enforce their edicts! If anyone tries any misguided action, the criminal system is styled to deal with such. I do not countenance their statement, not by one bit. Yet, is this my excuse to jettison kadhis Courts out of the constitution? NO, because they are not the issue. These are two separate issues. a religious issue which most of us have against Muslims and a legal and administrative issue, which does not impact on me in any way. I am afraid most of us Christians are going to vote for NO out of the spirit of fear, fear of the unknown, fear of what Muslims may or may not do! I chose to live by the spirit of God, which drives out all fear. I have a problem with Christians saying God has said we vote NO. You are not God nor are you his mouth piece. I am christian like any of you out there. I stand for yes. I also commend the ones who boldly stand to allow reason to prevail instead of advocating for passion.

  111. I will vote NO not because i have a spirit of fear but because i dont approve abortion and Kadhis courts in our constitution,i dont need a pastor to tell me abortion is wrong i can read that for myself from the Bible.On kadhis courts all religions need to be treated equally so its not a matter of fear but equality.I encourage the church to continue preaching NO.

  112. Hiram,

    To respond to you i have two questions.

    1. If you see your house burning, do you let it go on burning because you have no fear or do you put off the fire while it is still manageable?

    2. If you see with your own two eyes a deep pit bit before you, do you walk right into it knowing if you fall in it you will break your neck or do you say i have no fear and walk right into it?

  113. Amefica, here, there is no house burning, but a fear that it’l burn, so do you start pouring water on the house, just because you fear that one day it might burn? On your second qn, do you start jumping and leaping because you fear there might be a pit which your eyes are not seeing, just in case!

  114. Something I got which I think we should all keep at the back of our minds at this time;

    This applies equally to all elections!
    A True False Quiz: True or False for each statement.

    The day after the election, Jesus will still be king.
    The day after the election, our responsibilities as Christians
    will not have changed one iota.
    The day after the election, the greatest agent for social change in our
    country will still be winning the hearts and minds of men and women
    through the gospel, not through legislation.
    The day after the election, our primary citizenship will still be
    in this order: (1) The Kingdom of God (2) Our country, not vise-versa.
    The day after the election, the tomb will still be empty.
    The day after the election, the cross, not the government, will still
    be our salvation.
    The day after the election, my neighbor will still be my neighbor, and
    loving him/her will still be the second greatest commandment.
    The day after the election, regardless of who wins, “Jesus is Lord” will
    still be the greatest truth in the universe.
    the day after the election, regardless of who wins, we will still know
    that God is in control.

    How did you do? Can we trust God that we will come out on the other side
    of this in better shape than we went into it?

    With thanks to Rebecca LaCount

    For the Christian Prayer is not an option but an opportunity.
    “In prayer; expect setbacks, but refuse retreat”. R. Eastman
    “Salvation: Nothing to Earn, Much to Learn”. Adrian Rogers
    Seven days without prayer makes one weak.
    Do your best, bring out the best in others,
    Don’t tell the Lord how big the problem is,
    tell the problem how Great the Lord is!
    Put God first, be happy at last!

  115. I am a christian and will vote YES! Because, one: sin of abortion can not be dealt with through the constitution. Second:Not all Kenyans are christians for apart from the muslims there are many kenyans who follow the traditions handed down to them from one generation to the next and they are the majority in the rural areas.Even though our church leaders are right about abortion being a sin,not every one in kenya is a christian and we do not belong also to the same denomination so it is not right in my view to force christian values and ethics to those who do not profess the christian faith.The church should work hard to convert the hindus,traditionalists,muslims etc.If you make a constitution based on Gods laws according to the Bible what do you want those who are not christians to do if not to ask for a separate state.Why force people to be christians through a constitution? Is christianity a moral issue or a legal issue?

  116. Kamau, the Bible clearly states that we should not kill. Abortion is murder and goes against God’s laws. Now when you vote yes and the article on abortion has loopholes for its legalization will you not be party to the killing of innocent lives? You will have participated in this knowingly if you vote yes and you will be under God’s judgement for any baby that will be aborted. Currently people abort but it is an individual decision without any national sanction. This means that at least to some degree God does not hold all of us to account. By putting it in the constitution the CoE is putting the entire nation into a trap of sin. This is why the church is against the constitution.

  117. I have just read an email and i tend to think some people who are commenting do not belong to the christian faith.

  118. Hiram please read the post below and give me your comments. I also think you may be masquerading as a Christian but actually a muslim which would be unethical and dishonest.

    Claim on 10-mile coastal strip untrue and not justified

    Posted Thursday, April 22 2010 at 17:12
    I have read with great interest Macharia Gaitho’s article (Daily Nation, April 20, 2010), in which he seems to suggest that the removal of the kadhi’s courts clause from the draft constitution will cause the former 10-mile protectorate coastal strip to secede to Zanzibar. This is an error that I seek to correct. The whole debate on the kadhi’s courts is centred on the treaty of 1895 between Great Britain and Zanzibar, as well as the 1963 letters between the then Kenyan Prime Minister and his Zanzibar opposite number. The question as to the treaty’s legal status was answered at the Kenya Constitutional Conference (1962) through a statement by Mr Bossaddiq on February 19, 1962. The position was that the government of the Kenya colony was not a party to this treaty, and could not be a party to any negotiations concerning it. The treaty did not apply to the Kenya government at independence because it lacked the international standing to legally enforce it. Even if the pact was to apply to us, one of the conditions was that it was itself to be terminated if Kenya ceased to be a British colony, or should Britain give a six-month notice. At independence, Kenya officially and legally ceased to be a British colony, and so the agreement lapsed automatically. Thus, Mr Gaitho does not explain why and how the 10-mile strip could legally secede from Kenya. He may be relying on the 1963 letters between Kenyatta and the PM of Zanzibar, which, contrary to what is customary of treaty making, was done by correspondence between state leaders. A closer reading of these letters will also reveal that this was not an agreement, but mere correspondence between two heads of state.
    D. MWAURE WAIHIGA,
    Nairobi

  119. Michael, I bursted the guy long time!
    Hiram, what you are doing is even against your own quran so please just unmask yourself and lets talk openly, you quote your quran and we qoute our bible.

  120. Nigeria- sharia law in action, read on…..
    _______________________________

    Daily Independent (Lagos)

    Nigeria:
    Yerima in Marriage of Controversy
    Michael Jegede
    26 April 2010
    ——————————————————————————–

    Senator Ahmed Yerima, former Zamfara State governor, has remained a controversial figure, since his enforcement of Islamic code in Zamfara when he held sway between 1999 and 2007. He, for instance, made history as the first governor to introduce the practice of Sharia law as state religion. His actions in enforcing the doctrine, however, portrayed him as a man with intentions of enforcing the code in controversial manner.

    With a flowing beard, apparently indicating an ideological trademark, the lawmaker appears to be making another history by engaging a 13-year-old Egyptian against that country’s laws, which prohibits juvenile marriage. For the act, Yerima, perceived by critics as an embodiment of religious zealotry and extremism, has been condemned by many.

    Mrs. Akan Adeniyi, a concerned Lagos mother was, for example, incensed by the news. She vented her anger on the legislator in her recent write-up. She wrote: “The first thing is that Senator Ahmed is into slave trade, which had been abolished centuries ago. His going to Egypt to buy a girl is against the Law of humanity, not only against the Law of Nigeria, but that of the whole world. The Senator has committed an abomination against all Nigerian Mothers including his wives and mother. He was cutting peoples’ hands, who did something wrong when he was the governor of Zamfara State and now I strongly believe that he should have his private part chopped off because he has committed a great sacrilege against all mothers in the whole world.
    “I therefore call on all mothers, civil right organizations, all freedom fighters to come to the rescue of that young girl and make sure she is sent back home to live her life and go to school and become great as the children of Senator Ahmed because I know that his young girls are in school and not in homes of husbands.”
    In similar manner, Senator Eme Ekaette, Chairman, Senate Committee on Woman Affairs and Youth Development, has vowed that the Senate would do something about it. She could not imagine how her fellow senator would stoop so low to indulge in what she describes as a shameful act.

    “Honestly, we are not happy about it. As you know, that is the committee I head in the Senate and we are seriously working on it. It is a clear case of human rights violation and child abuse. We even heard that the marriage took place here in Abuja. It is abysmal and appalling and we must do something about it,” she assured.
    The development has become a serious issue of concern to most Nigerians, who see child marriage as a violation of a girl’s sexual and reproductive rights. Such rights, according to experts, include the highest attainable standard of sexual health; freedom from coercion, discrimination, violence and abuse, consensual sexual relations, pursuing a satisfying, safe and pleasurable sexual life, a choice of partner and consensual marriage.

    However, Yerima’s admirers, who see him as a hero for championing the cause of Sharia law in Nigeria, have come to his defence. They are of the opinion that Yerima has not gone against the laws of his religion by his decision to marry a teenager, although, they cautioned that as a former state governor and serving Senator, he should have exercised restraint.
    Yerima, who failed in his attempt to pick the presidential ticket of All Nigeria Peoples Party (ANPP) in 2007, eventually secured the Zamfara West Senatorial seat. He is currently the Minority Whip in the Senate.
    Born on July 22, 1960, Yerima holds a Master’s Degree in Economics. Before emerging Zamfara governor, he was a permanent secretary. He currently belongs to the Senate committees on Federal Character & Inter-Government Affairs, Agriculture and anti-corruption.

  121. Amefica and Michael, I dont have to prove to you or anyone here that I am a baptized christian. If you dont believe, that is your problem. I have taken the liberty to set out an article written by Ahmed Issack Hassan, whose arguments and facts i subsribe to entirely. Before I do that, i must respond specifically to the article posted by Michael where the writer argues that the letters between Kenyatta and the Sultan of Zanzibar were merely letters. The letter referred to was a letter dated 5th october 1963, the same gave an undertaking on behalf of the government of kenya. I’d advice that you seek counsel from a lawyer, and I am sure there are some here, to elaborate to you the legal effect of an undertaking, and the meaning of terms such as “estoppel” Otherwise, guys, enjoy the reading.

    Setting the record straight on Kadhi Courts in Kenya
    Written by Ahmed Issack Hassan
    Friday, 16 April 2010

    It is clear that the provision of Kadhi courts in Kenya’s draft constitution has become a matter of national debate. This article aims at informing the on-going debate by setting out basic facts about Kadhi courts that appear to have been ignored in the debate and analysis.
    It is important to approach every issue calmly and objectively and not subjectively, emotionally and with a pre-conceived idea/mind. But much more importantly, it is crucial to get all the facts correct about any issue before jumping to conclusion. It is only then that one can make an informed decision. An objective and honest discussion about the Kadhis Courts must consider their history and present status, the Commission’s mandate and what the people said before coming to the stage of analysing the present draft constitution.

    Historically, Kadhis Courts existed in the East Coast of Africa long before colonization. In Kenya, they existed in the Coast, which at the time of colonization, was under the Sultan of Zanzibar. In 1895, the Sultan gave the British power to administer the 10 mile coastal strip subject to their respecting the existing Kadhis Courts among other conditions. The British did so and declared a protectorate over the coast while the rest of Kenya was a colony proper.

    The Sultan however retained sovereignty over the 10 mile coastal strip. During the last years of the independence struggle and at the start of the Lancaster House Constitutional talks in 1961, the status and fate of the coastal strip came up for determination. The British organised separate talks for the delegates from the protectorate of the coast and those from the Kenya Colony.

    The British government and the Sultan of Zanzibar also appointed a Commissioner, James R. Robertson, to study the issue of the coastal strip, consult all those concerned and report to them. In his report, titled, “The Kenya Coastal Strip – Report by the Commissioner”, he reported that opinion was divided as to whether the coastal strip should join Kenya, or be declared independent on its own, or reverted back to the Sultan of Zanzibar. He, however, recommended that it should be joined with Kenya subject to the Kenyan government guaranteeing to respect the existence of the Kadhis Courts among other conditions. The Prime Minister of Kenya, Jomo Kenyatta and the Prime Minister of Zanzibar, Shamte on behalf of the Sultan of Zanzibar, then signed an agreement in October, 1963, in the form of an exchange of letters whereby the Sultan of Zanzibar relinquished/surrendered his claim of sovereignty over the coast to Kenya in return for Jomo Kenyatta guaranteeing the continued existence of the Kadhis Courts among other guarantees. When the independence constitution was written, the Kadhis Courts were enshrined under the chapter on judiciary.

    At independence, the Kenyan government expressed its sovereign desire not to be bound automatically by all the pre-independence treaties and agreements entered into by the colonial Government. By his note reference EXT. 237/003A of 25th March, 1964, addressed to the Secretary General of the United Nations, Kenyatta informed the United Nations of the Kenya Government’s intention to review all pre-independence treaties and agreements and determine which agreements will be honoured by the government and those which would be abrogated or modified after appropriate notice to the interested parties.

    It is important to note that the 1963 agreement between the Kenyan government and the Sultan of Zanzibar concerning Kenya’s coastal strip and the preservation of the Kadhis Courts was among those agreements that were immediately honoured by the newly independent Kenya. This is proved by the fact that the independence constitution of 1963 enshrined the Kadhis Courts under Chapter 5 in the judiciary and thereafter parliament passed the Kadhis Courts Act, the Mohammedan Marriage and Divorce Registration Act and the Mohammedan Marriage, Divorce and Succession Act to make these courts fully operational and functioning.

    At independence, there were three Kadhis Court in the country. In 1967, the Kadhis Courts Act was passed which increased the courts to 6. They have subsequently been increased and today they are more than a dozen spread over the country.

    The Kadhis Courts were entrenched in the constitution as a measure of safeguarding the integrity of the agreement reached on them. If the courts were established under ordinary law by an act of parliament alone, then it would have made them vulnerable since any decision to abolish them would have required a simple majority of the members of parliament to repeal the Act. Under the present standing orders of Parliament which sets the quorum of the house at 30, it means that only sixteen (16) Members of Parliament could do so. In contrast, to abolish the courts as enshrined in the constitution would require a two-thirds (2/3) majority in Parliament. As a minority therefore the Muslims in Kenya find great relief and solace in the entrenchment of the Kadhis Courts in the constitution.

    Section 66 of the current constitution provides for the Chief Kadhi and Kadhis Courts allowing them to decide on issues of Muslim personal law between Muslims that is matters concerning marriage, divorce and inheritance.

    The commission’s mandate under the law is to collect, collate and analyse the views of Kenyans on changes to be made to the constitution and to recommend amendments or other changes thereto which faithfully reflects the views and wishes of Kenyans. The commission was to study the judiciary, among other institutions, and seek people’s views on how the judiciary could be improved.

    The Kadhis Courts are part of the judiciary and the legal systems. When the commission issued “issues and questions” for public hearing to guide the people in the collection of the views, the same contained questions on what was to be done to the Chief Kadhi and Kadhis Courts. Many of the people, organizations and experts who gave views on the Kadhis courts did not at all question their existence but advocated for their retention with some improvements or modifications.

    The Muslims generally asked for the enhancement of the role and status of the courts while in some cases like in North Eastern Province, they asked for the full application of Sharia law in their areas. The team of judicial experts and eminent scholars from the Commonwealth in their report on the judiciary also recommended the retention of the Kadhis Courts in their present form. A group of Human Rights and Legal Organisations such as KHRC, LSK, ICJ, FIDA, among others, also prepared a model constitution under the motto, Kenya Tuitakayo (the Kenya we want) and in that model constitution, they also recommended for the retention of the Kadhis Courts with their present jurisdiction and for the Chief Kadhi to have minimum academic qualification and to enjoy the same status and privileges as a High Court Judge.

    In recommending improvements to the Kadhis Courts, the commission was faithfully reflecting an analysis of the views it received. It is therefore wrong to suggest that CKRC is favouring Muslims or creating parallel court structure or introducing Sharia Law through the back door. The commission did not receive any views for the creation of courts for Jews, Hindus or others. Sharia Law is not being introduced as the jurisdiction of the Kadhis Courts are clearly confined to matters of personal Law between Muslims. There will be no stoning to death for adultery or cutting of hands even for the Muslims in Kenya as this is covered by Islamic Criminal Law which is not permitted here in Kenya either in the present constitution or under the new draft bill.

    The Kadhis Courts do not exist in Kenya alone. Several countries in Africa and the Commonwealth that have a significant population of Muslims provide for these courts in their constitutions and laws to cater for the regulation of the personal status of their Muslim citizens. Save for those countries that have established Islamic states which apply Islamic law throughout the country, other states tend to limit the jurisdiction of these courts to matters affecting the personal status of its Muslim population. In some cases, the jurisdiction is exclusive to the Kadhis Courts while in others the courts are established as subordinate courts to the secular High Courts or Supreme Courts. The Kadhis Courts are also called Qadhis Courts (Uganda), Cadi Court (Gambia), Sharia Court (Nigeria), Shariat Court (Pakistan) and Religious Court (Jordan).

    The Nigeria constitution provides for the establishment of the kadi (judge) and Sharia courts in the states and in the federation. The Sharia Courts of Appeal is to compose of the Grand Kadi and such number of kadis as may be prescribed by law. The jurisdiction of the Sharia courts is listed under Sections 262 and 277 of the constitution. The qualification for appointment to the office of Grand Kadi or Kadi of the Sharia Court of Appeal is set out by Sections 261 and 266 of the constitution. Sections 264 and 279 give the grand Kadi, who is equivalent to the Chief Kadhi in Kenya, the power to make rules for regulating the practice and procedure of the Sharia Court. The major difference between the Kadhis Courts in Nigeria and Kenya is that the former apply full Islamic Sharia law while in Kenya, the jurisdiction is limited to personal law i.e marriage, divorce and inheritance which is the case in Gambia and Uganda.

    The Gambian constitution under Section 137, establishes the Cadi Court to be constituted by the cadi (judge) and two other scholars qualified to be a cadi or ulama (Islamic scholars). Appeals from this court goes to a review court composed of the Cadi and four ulamas. The Cadi Court has jurisdiction to apply Islamic Sharia in matters of marriage, divorce and inheritance where the parties before the Court are Muslims. The qualification for appointment to the position of Cadi requires a person of high moral standing and professional qualification in Sharia law.

    The Ugandan constitution establishes the Qadhis courts under Section 129 as one of the subordinate courts of judicature exercising judicial power in Uganda to deal with matters of marriage, divorce, inheritance of property and guardianship.

    The argument that the provisions in the draft constitution treat other religions less favourably is clearly without merit. Article 44 of the draft bill is a basket clause containing several sections guaranteeing and protecting the freedom of religion for all. The Kadhis Courts, which fall under the chapter on the judiciary, could not have been brought under the ambit of article 44 which comes under the chapter on human rights.

    The Kadhis courts should be seen in the context of the judiciary and the legal system and not as a religious or Muslim issue alone. Those opposing the Kadhis courts and making allegation of bias for Muslims are politicising the issue and creating unnecessary tension and disharmony between the Muslims and their Kenyan brothers and sisters.

    By whipping up emotions of other people who may not have all the facts before them, these people are undermining the goals of the constitutional review process which is inter alia to unite the country and to respect and promote the ethnic and religious diversity of the people of Kenya. It is the hope of all those who wish to see the continuation of the peace and harmony that exists between the different religious communities in Kenya that men and women of goodwill in Kenya will see through the propaganda war being waged against the Kadhis courts and support the recommendations of CKRC which is a faithful reflection and analysis of the views received from the people.

    The writer is a Nairobi lawyer, the chairman of the Interim Independent Electoral Commission -IIEC and a consultant of Somalia’s Constitution making effort. He had written this article when serving as a commissioner at the now defunct Constitution of Kenya Review Commission.

    Ahmed Issack Hassan
    About the author:

  122. Hiram, If you are truly a Christian, how come you don’t see any merit in the church’s position but rather a ardent defender of the removal of kadhi courts and other contentious issues? Can the spirit in you be the same as that in the other Christians? I have not seen any leaning towards Christianity in all your arguments-even the article posted above is from a muslim.

  123. I kindly request all christians out there to pray for our brother Hiram.

  124. Thanks a lot Karuri, I welcome prayers any day, anytime. I have prayed about this draft constitution and do you know what my prayer is? That God may grant all kenyans the wisdom to make the right choice. Whatever the outcome of the referendum, I will accept it as God’s will. Micheal, it is because I genuinely do not see this debate as them vs. us, but the substance of the argument advanced whether by a christian, hindu or muslim. I try to be open minded and objective at all times, hence my passionate defence of the kadhis courts and the draft

    • Please readers, try to see the substance in the article and not the fact that the writer is muslim. Incase you didnt notice, the writer is an expert in constitution making and also a lawyer!

      • Hiram,
        Hiram Abiff is one of the major figures in Freemasonaly so please Hiram we understand when you have no problems with the Kadhis courts.Please subscribe to it as per your faith only don’t pretend to be a christian.You can’t mix light and darkness ,good and evil yet claim to be a christian.Please subscribe to your religion but don’t try to hood wink christians that you are one of them because your are not.

      • It is interesting how champions and protectors of the “christian cause” have thrown principle, reason and debate out of the window and resorted to cheap theatrics in the name of mudslinging. You are a shame to the christian faith and I am ashamed to share christianity with them. You think that labelling me a free mason will weaken the force of my argument and shadow the truth? You think it will make me mellow and stop christians reading what I have to say just because you have labelled me a freemason and a muslim? Frankly I dont care, meet my arguments on kadhis courts and abortion with yours based of what the law does or does not say and the rules of interpretation. Anything outside that is for theatre and I aint no thespian!

      • Thespian or not.You are not being labeled.You are exactly that.Now what is soo hard about you understanding that abortion is outrightly endorsed by the proposed draft when they say ………OR ANY OTHER WRITTEN LAW….(Please read ROE VS WADE US SUPREME COURT).This became “AN WRITTEN LAW” there by endorsing a “WOMEN’S RIGHT TO CHOOSE” there by legalising abortion in the US.How is this different from what is on the draft.We have also seen the results of “Kadhi’s” courts in The JOS PLATEAU State in Nageria . Now we understand that as you propagate your agendas and new world order,you will go to any lengths to try and confuse everybody but unfortunatly for you the body of christ will not bow down to your whims and deceptions.

      • This aint America! Qn, does the current law legalize abortion? are our courts under an obligation to apply ROE V WADE? are you aware of the provisions of the Revision of Laws Act and Judicature Act? Is kenya a dualist or monolist country? You really think the chaos in nigeria have been occasioned by kadhis courts? you think you are the body of christ?

      • You wanted people to discuss issues yet you don’t get it! Who said Kenya was America? does the American constitution legalise abortion expressely?no what they did was leave open statements like…………OR ANY OTHER WRITTEN LAW and in came ROE VS WADE which after the ruling in the US supreme court became a court precedent hence a WRITTEN LAW there by legalising abortion
        Now in law when you leave some loose words like ….OR ANY OTHER WRITTEN LAW who knows,you people might place your people in courts to rule just like the US supreme court did……what will stop you any way?
        When we still at it, this draft doesn’t require parliament to ratify any international statutes&protocals all that is needed is the presidential signiture unlike in the current constitution.
        And yes Kadhi’s courts which are part of the Sharia law cause chaos every where including mandera where Immams think they already have executive authority to close peoples businesses.If these follows are empowered what do you think they will do next?
        AND YES IM IN THE BODY OF JESUS CHRIST and you are not

      • Hiram, The constitution in my view be the foundation on which the entire Nation is tied to. It should the place where in case we differ, (Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Traditionist, individuals, young, old, female, male, State Organs etc), we would go and find settement NOT further divisions. When a building is tied to a cracked foundation it will eventually fall.

        The CoE was suppossed to harmonise the various drafts that were there. In there wisdom, they deleted some important clause like ‘State and religion will be separate’ and that the state shall treat all religion equally. I am at pains to understand why this was done.

        On issue of abortion. We have oponed a door for recklessness. First, any woman who conceives willingly desires to have a baby at the end of her preqnancy. Many causes of healthy issues during pregnancy are treatable and I am supprised that what the proposed draft Constitution sees an easier way out is to kill the Baby instead of providing for support to carry the pregancy to full term. In case the baby dies in cause of treatment of the mother, no one has quarrel with that, even adults die in cause of treatment.

        America since 1973 has been debating this over the years. The Judge who passed this is now pro-life. The question is how the ‘trained’ medical staff determine which pregnancy to terminate and who will review the actions. Who will go to court on behalf of the defenceless baby who will be killed in the pretex of saving the mother. In the advance of science, more effort should be put to support expectant mothers to full term not KILLING THEIR UNBORN BABY, unless their is more to it.

  125. Hiram
    You say that you “genuinely do not see this debate as them vs. us, but the substance of the argument advanced whether by a christian, hindu or muslim.” So how come you have not seen any merit on the Christian side?

  126. I am a Christian..not born again though. i have three christian friends who will vote NO just because their pastors told them so. Personally am voting YES. I have read the draft and i know its good for me as a kenyan and as a christian. God bless you all.

  127. Hi readers,
    Pls leave Hiram alone,It’s the Lord who changes people.The Bible sums up everything that we’re talking about with one command,”Thou shall not kill.REMEMBER THEIR IS AFULLSTOP AFTER THAT STATEMENT.So anybodies arguments whether either to save the mother and kill the child to me doesn’t sale.Remember this medical professionals people are empowering to kill just multipiled in number recently.50 yrs ago they were very few or even no-existent in some places but God’s plan through procreation has been going on without hindrance since the days of Adam.My dear brothers and sisters please read 1st timoty 4:1-4.You will understand where hiram is standing from.What i know as a christian WHO IS bORN AGAIN IS THAT GOD WILL SILENCE EVERYONE WHO IS MAKING noise .This is within this months before the referendum.We serve A God who speaks and i know God is ABLE and if you’re not standing on his side then shut up and see what he will do through those who call upon his name.Brethren iam confident that within the next one months everyone talking in support of this evil draft will be silent.God will glorify himself.Remember what Moses decided after breaking the ten commandments.He later came to the camp and made a proclamation “Who is on God’s side “and gave the people an opotunity to choose.The Bible says the family of levi came on his side and the other Israelites who chose otherwise died later.My brothers and sisters be sure in Christianity their is no democracy.When God’s oracles are being broken you’ll either be on his side or on the enemies camp.It’s time we watched otherwise when Kenya will be in trouble because we sanctioned an evil document to guide us ,as the bible says judgment always starts in the church.That is why we have no option but make noise and if possible loudest until we have been heard.May the good Lord in whom all the families of the earth are named give even the peple who are not saved in Kenya the ability to say NO to this document to the glory of his name.

  128. Dear brethren,i kindly request us not to continue debating this issue with Hiram. I have said it in the past lets pray and say what the Lord is telling us.Its my prayer that no one will engage Hiram in this conversation again.

  129. VERSE OF THE DAY
    But Micaiah replied, “As surely as the LORD lives, I will say only what the LORD tells me to say.” – 1 Kings 22:14

  130. For the church not to take a stand in such an important thing as the constitution would be failure of the church to lead from the front.The government is busy telling people to vote yes whereas the church leaders are expected to tell their flock to decide on their own ..i think this is wierd and i would urge all church leaders to tell their congregation as authoritatively as the politicians are doing telling the flock why all we christians must vote no to the draft cos it includes the kadhi courts.Kenya have had many problems in the past i hear we were at par with Malaysia & akina Singapore economically yet despite our resources &whatever we do something always goes wrong for Kenya look at oil in Uganda gas in Tanzania dont we think it is time Kenyans get a holy constitution like Ugandans & Tanzanians. Preachers tell the people it is NO!

  131. God has given us revelation to know that these are the last days, and tribulations will come. Indeed having kadhis courts in the constitution is a steping stone for more than what we think can happen. As a christian look at this from a spiritual point of view. where logic and reason do not exist, but rather revelation and the extraordinary exist. God is not threatened by the kadhis courts, but he also has given us wisdom to know what it can lead to. look at how Israel got their first king. God even for-warned them about having a king and what he would do to them, but did they listen? no! they cried and demanded a king! look what saul did, he took their daughters and brought them into his palace, he took their vineyards and made them pay taxes, etc.
    we dont see the past the surface,but God does, and he has revealed to us that these are the last days, and the devil is stil out there like a roaring lion lookin for whom he may devour! be wise, and see with spiritual eyes where Kenya stands. This is a nation that has been called by God to be a home to refugees, a peaceful country. just like israel, God has called his children (us who have been called through Jesus Christ) to shed light unto this world, if kenya professes to be 80% christian then its high time to show it. otherwise know the other spiritual force, is massing his soldiers and using people to bring kenya down, and thus threatening what God has destined for Greatness! lets be wise and see with spiritual eyes, not with human eyes!

  132. I find article 45 sufficient to cover all of us in any religion or otherwise and I don’t see the necessity of the Kadhis Courts unless there is more to it.

    We could also provide for in the constitution that people professing same Religion to seek to be assigned a Magistrate or Judge of the same faith in matters relating to Marriage, divorce and Inheritance.

  133. We are the salt and the Light of this world. It our responsibility to preserve this Nation in the sight of God and point it to the correct direction. We will do so firstly by prayer, by declaring the Word of God concerning the constitution that we are stakeholders in making and finally by voting. Our Vote will be our seal/signature.

  134. Dear Brethren,

    I leave Eldoret today for tomorrow’s witness by the Church at Uhuru
    Park. I want to be part of those who stood publicly to say “no” to an
    ungodly document.I do not fear losing in the referendum anymore. I
    fear being listed with those who loved their status or lives so much
    that they remained indecisive or simply did nothing when there was an
    opportunity.

    I do not fear the unknown and I will not fear the Evil One. I will not
    compromise my position and I will not keep quiet.

    I have talked. I have written to defend God’s position on this
    proposed constitution, and it is time for me to come out publicly and
    say:

    1. I will not support a document that licenses the killing of the unborn.
    2. I will not be party to a document that muzzles the preaching of the
    Gospel, for Jesus said that this Gospel of the Kingdom must be
    preached before the end; the end is not yet.
    3. I will not support a document that fosters religious inequality by
    favouring Muslims.
    4. I will not support a document that grants homosexuals
    constitutional recognition in the name of “freedom from
    discrimination” for God says this lifestyle is an abomination, and
    5. I will not support a document that is more eager to take care of
    international laws and principles, while neglecting the national
    interests of the people of Kenya.

    Let us meet at Uhuru Park by 9:00 A.M. and take a public stand against
    this document, join in a common public fellowship that will display
    the unity of the Church and take some time to pray together for the
    process at hand.

    Stand up, stand up for Jesus,
    Ye soldiers of the Cross;
    Lift high His royal banner,
    It must not suffer loss.
    From victory unto victory
    His army shall He lead
    Till every foe is vanquished
    And Christ is Lord indeed.

    In the service of Jesus Christ my Lord,

    Reuben Kigame

    ps: Do not forget to pick up a copy of Reason Magazine at Uhuru Park
    for yourself and your friends for it highlights the contentious issues
    in detail.

    Reuben Kigame
    Managing Director Fish Media

  135. Amen brother!am encouraged to know that even if we loose at the referendum we stood for God.Where can i get the magazine?

  136. Dear Kenyans if inclusion
    of only two
    words in the draft constitution can be so damaging to the whole
    constituition how monstrous damage can the 5% flaws & contention
    admitted by the government bring.Vote no & help save our beloved
    Kenya!

  137. the church may have used inappropriate language and the same seems not convincing b4 the mighty in academics. science and religion disproves each other and this is one of the fight .the call to read the draft and make a self informed choice is ignorance in fovour of the few who are lucky to have gone thru 844 system. although the world is moving towards the empowerment of the minority, let us think of 3 world war since this has been the history of such governance.
    defending the faith is a duty in the bibilical sence and the church should not be silent about it. even the kadhis court represents the muslim faith its presence being the fight for dominance.we are not trying to do as they do but we have the duty from the almighty God. we are told to accomodate everyone without compromising our faith.
    if heaven is the only perfect place should we make the earth to be hell?is the constitution not trying to improve the governance let us get out of our confort zone and pray fast for destruction is knocking at the door,may God save Kenya.
    just think-if the leaders should not engage in politics, are they elligible to vote?

  138. I WILL NOT CORRUPT MY “HUMAN FOOTPRINT”ON THIS PLANET TO PLEASE THE PRINCIPALITIES IT IS MY CHANCE TO VOTE ‘NO’ FOR ME & THE GENERATIONS TO COME LONG AFTER AM GONE.THE CHURCH MUST USE ALL THE NECESSARY RESOURCES TO SEE THAT WE WIN SUCH AN OPPORTUNITY COMES ONES IN A LIFETIME.IF WE LOSE WE WILL HAVE DONE OUR PART AND HISTORY WILL JUDGE US RIGHT!

  139. Thanks for making such a valuable blog, sincerely Kobos Mathers.

    Gucci Shoes

  140. I was navigating online for thoughts on a new post to write upon and saw your Blog. Although I may agree with your ideas a little bit, I think I will write something that is somewhat at the underside of your post. I like your thoughts though and will write something that is very close to it .

  141. Thanks4 this space and God bless you 4 this opportunity to interested parties to air their opinion.

    I am a Born again Christian.. and my stand as of this date regarding the constitution is YES.. and I beg to differ with my colleagues/ Brethren who feel otherwise, though I respect their opinion. we have come along way.. prayed.. fasted.. discussed.. committees formed..commissions.. parliament.. experts…name them .. and all along PRAYING AND INTERCEDING.. and hopefully continuing to do it.. and somehow our God allowed it to get this far..and you still want me and like-minded folks to believe this whole thing is NOT IN GOD”S WILL?
    Lets continue seeking Him, and continue occupying till He comes..

    Matthew 13: 24… speaks of ‘WHEN MEN SLEPT’ , tares were planted, and the Master said they would have to wait4 harvest time for complete separation.. Christians, we have come far, and if we think we can exterminate the Muslims, we’ve got 2nd thoughts coming! We have our mandate of propagating or spreading the Gospel of Christ Jesus as decreed in the Great Commission.. and the Muslims have their own agenda too from their believes, whatever it is! they know.. but Let me concern myself with our obligation! Spread Christ message! Not fear, nor Lies even on the pulpits and even distortions .. and alleged projections of what will happen IF THE CONSTITUTION goes thru. remember father Abraham? Isaac had his take of blessings, and Ishmael had his too, don’t have to remind you who was ministering to the needs of Hagar, and the prophecy!

    I tend to feel that our church leaders are on the wrong footing here.. but i Truly Respect them, they are entitled to their opinions, but they should not drag the whole church into NO, nor purport to be representing ALL. am in the Church, and my conviction’s otherwise… I wish the clergy could pay attention to what many are discussing from the pews.. in fact some of us “washirikas” are tired of listening to Costitution’s NO themed sermons that have almost overtaken the emphasis on WORD of God! kind of based on assumption’s that the listeners/ members can’ t/ don’t think… after all, they are the “SHEEP” and Leaders the Shepherds ! ( I wish I could put that in mother-tongue)

    I don’t have to recount many times that some of the TOP TV PRESENTERS have goofed, though not many mentions it in open, but many left dis granted.. from wrong prophecies that some were spoken to be a President then, to others anointing leaders to Win elections claiming its God who had Spoken,.. to others with quire practices that didn’t/ don’t glorify God .. to many acts that we see on during their Presentations that leaves us gasping.. is it in the Boarders of the scriptures? .. cursing.. funny ways.. etc etc.. and now most have joined together over a constitution.. We longed for them to come together even for probably a Powerful Crusade of the TOPs,.. or an ALL church repentance meeting, and some who’ve made attempt of this, others have laid the flock away,.. even speaking against other preachers and keeping flocks held.. or ensuring coincidences in Church meetings when one raises a Banner of a conference, the other does so just to ensure flocks are held within their respective 4 walls, wasikunywe maji mabaya jiani!

    we see this, we understand but wonder why.. How comes they’ve come out in one accord over an earthly constitution, yet differed so much over the Heavenly- eternal one, -the Bible to an extent of breakaways churches/ Ministries over differences in interpretations of the Inspired, infallible word of God! To extent of some bringing the constitution as the measuring rod of True Christians? evoking the words of Joshua, as for me and my house, we’ll serve the Lord as if those advocating for Yes are serving another, or Bowing to Baal.. or to Babylonian gods? Kindly give us a break!

    Our God shall still remain as the Only true God, whether the Constitution goes thru or not, whether Kadhi courts are enshrined or not ( He still is, even under the current constitution), whether Abuja declaration is propagated or not ( we should propagate our Faith and strategies fast in counteraction, not scare or prophecy DOOM to Believers). He still remains God whether abortion continues legally or illegally ( Lets preach and preach morals and integrity) ..whether laws projecting funny marriages are enacted or not .. Romans 1: talks of people God has given over to.. No alarm or issues should be allowed to scare or make the church anxious! in everything, with supplications, make our request known to God in Prayer.

    I wish the God’s Generals ( I love them with love of Christ ) would’ve met or gathered people together as are now doing in NO CAMPAIGN, to agree with at least one or two Clauses that may be would have been enshrined in the constitution, or led the people to say enough is enough to state of IDP’S affairs, or to influence decision on pending policy like MPs’ salary inclement.. or take Nation back to God on Bended Knees.. or PREACH THE WORD in a GRAND CRUSADE! that would be so! But When men Slept!

    Jeremiah 7:1-.. warns against boasting this is the Temple of the Lord.. vs 12 asks us to Go back to Shilo where God Himself made his name, and see what happened to it .. Lets exhibit Responsibility in our search for a new constitution, and avoid defiling the altars with this over emphasized sermon of Constitution ( or is it a doctrine that the enemy has brought on our way to act as a stumbling block, as did Balaam who advised Balak in Revelation 2? Can somebody convince me otherwise? THANKS.


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