We have had heated debates on the abortion issue for quite awhile now. Some people want it legalized while others want it outlawed. But what exactly is abortion? Why and when should it be carried out? The constitution does not satisfactorily answer these questions and that is why there is so much confusion. The document says that abortion can take place only if the life of the mother is in danger.
Don’t you think Kenyans know what is good for them and should be left to do what they want, thus making abortion a personal choice? Women are being told instead of aborting the baby they should give it up for adoption or take it to children’s home. But how easy is that in Kenya today?
The new draft, Section 26, reads: “Every person has a right to life, and that life begins at conception.” This is contradicted in the next section which allows abortion when, in the opinion of a trained health professional (not necessarily a physician), there is need for emergency treatment, or the life or health of the mother is in danger or if permitted by any other law.
Finally, does the abortion clause have to be in the constitution? The clause is a very sensitive matter and is likely to affect the voting pattern during the referendum. We have seen some groups publicly declare that they will vote against the draft because of the abortion clause.
Is abortion a state or personal choice?
Constitution Crossroads 
GOD GAVE ALL OF US A CHOICE, HE DID NOT STOP US FROM SINNING BUT RATHER TOLD US ABOUT THE ILLS OF SIN, THEN THE CHOICE IS UP TO US, SO ABORTION OR WHATEVER ELSE BEING IN THE CONSTITUTION OR NOT DOES NOT REALY MATER, ALL HAVE CHOICE, WHATEVER YOU CHOOSE THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES GOOD OR BAD. IT IS NOT THE CONSTITUTION THAT WILL STOP YOU FROM SINNING OR NOT, IT IS YOUR CONVICTION, YOUR FAITH. I WILL VOTE YES AS THE DOCUMENT IS BETTER THAT WHAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE
By: TOMKIM on April 12, 2010
at 2:45 pm
GOD GAVE ALL OF US A CHOICE, HE DID NOT STOP US FROM SINNING BUT RATHER TOLD US ABOUT THE ILLS OF SIN, THEN THE CHOICE IS UP TO US, SO ABORTION OR WHATEVER ELSE BEING IN THE CONSTITUTION OR NOT DOES NOT REALY MATER, ALL HAVE CHOICE, WHATEVER YOU CHOOSE THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES GOOD OR BAD. IT IS NOT THE CONSTITUTION THAT WILL STOP YOU FROM SINNING OR NOT, IT IS YOUR CONVICTION, YOUR FAITH. I WILL VOTE YES AS THE DOCUMENT IS BETTER THAN WHAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE
By: TOMKIM on April 12, 2010
at 2:46 pm
the current constitution is fine just the way it is. for the past 12 years we’ve seen considerable improvement in th country. this shows that this current constitution is merely in its infancy stages and should all the institutions perform fairly good, we’ll see even more growth. kenya’s constitutional history is already made and sealed, lets find new grounds to make good productive history. be blessed
By: jp kamau on April 12, 2010
at 6:53 pm
Am born again christian, And for sure the so called arbortion has been happening since Judges days. And nothing is new!!!!, I WILL VOTE FOR THE DRAFT coz EVEN NEVER SEEN THE CURRENT ONE. One deforminty in your life should never lead to to commit suicide. LETS VOTE YES FOR THE DRAFT.
By: KASINE OLE MEIKOKI on April 13, 2010
at 6:45 am
Can the constitution help the church do what it has failed to do?
By: Goddie on April 13, 2010
at 6:48 am
Christians have a choice, we are in the world but not of it. Teach the children the right way, the constitution says it is not legal, but allows in instances of saving the life of the mother etc. This is bringing the battle to flesh and blood, the church should not forget our battle field, if the hearts of Christians are equipped with love and morality, not only will there be no need for the abortion we think we are preventing by our vote (flesh) but with our love we will be able to attract others to what we believe in and they will not need to solve their family issues through a kadhi court. The church is becoming powerless by using our weapons in the wrong wars, look at the slaughter in Nigeria by people who say they are fighting for the the Lord, we cannot shoot an arrow with a bazuka. I wish the time we spent fighting the constitution was spent chambuaing our Basic Instructions Before Living Earth, and living them. this is more powerful than any constitution and if we live this well, we will be well above the law and will attract others to the supreme law. We should be thanking God that the constitution we are fighting gives us freedom to live a life that is above it.
Abortion is a personal mater and if your heart is well guarded in the word then no matter what the constitution says (as long as it does not force you or inhibit you) your heart will prevail. Lets support the government in making the state governable and by giving it the divine example.
By: Wazamo on April 13, 2010
at 7:28 am
My goodness! I’m amazed at the way Christians are thinking on this page… Why should we fight so hard for political issues and not even bother to think twice about matters that touch the heart of God? Abortion is murder. MURDER. Taking someone else’s life. How can we stand aloof and claim that it is a matter of choice? Why don’t we then go ahead and just legalise murder in our constitution? Oh, isn’t that a matter of choice? Don’t you think that a murderer “chooses” to kill his victim? Why don’t we then just do away with the law then? Afterall, just because the law says not to steal, rape, e.t.c. doesn’t prevent vagabonds from doing all these ills! I say no no no to abortion in our constitution.
By: AnonymousLady on April 13, 2010
at 1:51 pm
I agree with the anonymous lady. I am disappointed at the way todays christians are easily compromising. I am not saying I am perfect but I dont need to be a rocket science to figure out that abortion is murder. If you let innocent blood be shed especially in the hands of the same mother supposed to protect a bad spirit of death will come upon the land and I am not a prophet of doom but trust me the Lord has never changed and he will never change. Its up to you people if you want to support abortion go right ahead but for everything you do there is a consequency. No one is mentioning of the depression and void that follows after a ‘mother’ has aborted. If you want to legalise it do it and then ask Ethiopia of what happened after they legalised, as we talk mortality there is 300 times more than it was before legalisation- this is not rumours but facts. before you make any decision study the subject and you will realise abortion is not as easy as ‘fllushing’. The bible says the Lord will not be mocked.
By: martyn on April 13, 2010
at 5:40 pm
hey mike i say that the sole decision lies with us,abortion may be legalized bt the sole decision is our’s. The mediocrety surrounding this draft is proving 2 be 2 futile.There is always a way out in these.during judgement every action will be held 2 accountability,even hidden ones.This is nt an issue tht hs jst propped up, its bin there and its we who have failed 2 show leadership down from the family level.i know of a certain bishop in uganda,he was a strong advocater against use of condoms bt he recently lost a daughter. We should first put our houses in order 2 read from the same script then we will surely tackle this issue all of us.i dnt support abortion bt we hve to be realistic ,true leadership is demonstrated in hard circumstances lyke this.
By: isaac kihanda on April 14, 2010
at 5:55 am
I believe the decision lies with the individual. God has given us free will in life and according to God’s law He alone has the last word on who should live or die. I totally do not contend with this clause…….Again how long will the clase take these power hungry and educational funds thugs to change the abortion and Kadhi clauses…….My vote still stands at NO!!!!
By: goodgalgonebadd on April 14, 2010
at 7:38 am
ABORTION IS A STATE MATTER NOT A PERSONAL MATTER.
‘THOU SHALL NOT MURDER’
When God gave the Ten Commandments to Moses, it was a state matter, state laws.
The state should not allow Abortion or give any loopholes for it thereof.
I SAY NO TO ABORTION.
By: Gathoni on April 14, 2010
at 12:00 pm
Thank you Gathoni and Martyn!
By: AnonymousLady on April 14, 2010
at 1:08 pm
First of all, i sincerely say NO to abortion.The last wordings ( or if permitted by other law????? – which other laws????) makes the situation more worse.If we were aborted ourselves, where would we be?.
The fifth commandment of God spells out this issue and we should not even think of doing anything close to that leave about the killing itself.
I SAY NO TO ARBOTION.
By: Martin on April 14, 2010
at 1:32 pm
Thanks for the good forum.I would say abortion under unjustified conditions is wrong. Let’s give it a look from all perspectives. I would want to carry out abortion on my daughter if she is raped by armed robbers( and justify my self to be right before every living individual) on the other hand, so and so in some place might feel it right to have a grand son-a result of ungodly act. In addition, not all of our (christian) parents are sane as a result you might find that a parent sleeps with his daughter who then becomes pregnant. What can the daughter do with the child? You some where will want to abort the baby while me here will want the baby to grow and wish him or her a good life. The state saying that abortion is legal could have not been an issue if some conditions such as “under the help of a medical doctor” or ” under special conditions diagnosed by a medical doctor” were included. Reason being that no sane human beings will take couples of their time to make a child whom after confirming its presence is done a way with. In simple, no one loves not a child hence will not long to do away with them intentionally- there must be a reason for the otherwise. Being that we know that abortion is wrong, how many such acts have been taking place in the grassroots or behind the closed doors ( which the state and the church are completely oblivious of?). These are some of the sensitivepersonal issues whose verdicts lies on the hands of the principal actors themselves. WE CAN TELL OUR FRIENDS HOW TO LIVE BUT THE KIND OF THE LIFE THEY CHOOSE TO LIVE IS BETWEEN THEM AND THEIR CREATOR. LET ABORTION BE A PERSONAL ISSUE.
By: BENARD OTIENO on April 14, 2010
at 6:44 pm
And so the question is it a state matter or individual choice? laws are put into place so that they guide and prevent harm to individuals even by themselves. for example suicide is a crime and should you be caught attempting to hang yourself you can be taken to a court of law and be prosecuted. abortion on the other hand is killing too, so you cannot convince me that i have the right to kill someone else and a helpless baby at that and yet even killing myself is a crime. Am I confusing? After reading this I think you will not be too confused. How would you feel- you would not feel anything anyway- if someone took your life and got away with it? And for those supporting abortion if your dear mum aborted you, you would not be here even to support abortion!
Every civilized state has laws that are there to govern and to uphold sanity amongst people. A law in place against abortion is simply there to prevent murder of a baby and also to protect the mother from the dangers of abortion. Do you know why the U.S government is too much keen on green cards and every time you open your email a green card advert pops from nowhere? because they realized they made a mistake by legalizing abortion as so many babies have died and they are realizing that there is a generation miss and they want to compensate by getting foreigners. But the main reason I am against abortion is that God is against it and it is totally wrong. I leave you with this to ponder and if your answers is NO then apply same to abortion. 1. should murder be a personal choice or state matter 2. should axe murderers be allowed loose to decide whether to kill or not according to their mood. 3. should Kenya be like Somalia where you can wake up, dislike the face of the guy passing near your home, shoot him repeatedly and claim that he passed at the wrong time. Good people let us be RENSPONSIBLE and if you cannot RAISE a child ABSTAIN kama watu wengine! NKT
By: martyn on April 14, 2010
at 10:00 pm
nobody would want to conceive and then abort, am sure the situation is much uglier than to carry it to the full term. Abortion is just but name, where are the killers who have finished our pple out there taken? we have heard so many cases where pple are killed and the killers mingle freely with others, where are they taken.
Abortion is personal issue
By: jane on April 15, 2010
at 7:32 am
One of the prophets of Juda I think Amos accused Israel of calling evil good and good evil in an effort to frustrate justice, especially to the poor and weak. I see an exact paralell in the way able bodied human beings who were carried to full term by their mothers and nurtured to maturity now have turned against voiceless helpless unborn babies in quest for selfish and self centered abortion. Who said that a doctor or any other professional person is qualified to determine which life to safe and to kill? Are they God? Will they be required to consult the Auther of life inorder to chose or will they be guided by the easier option? The question to ask and determine is : is unborn child alive? If yes is terminating its development not killing? By putting it in the constitution we are attempting to absolve those who do it of legal guilt. But what about the spiritual guilt?
Inclusion will also mislead the less informed into thinking that there is nothing wrong with what they are doing. Can family media mobilise some of the graphic pictures of unborne babies and others of what abortion entails!!! Also the interview with the US lady who aborted and her experience after the abortion. The law of God is very clear on taking of life and it is not to be done in casual manner.
LET’S PRAY FOR THIS IS WAR AGAINST GOD AND HIS FOUNDATIONS
By: Ruth on April 15, 2010
at 1:08 pm
Jane, I agree abortion is a personal issue and that is why we don’t want the nation to be dragged into a constitution that would allow it. Doing so would mean that the entire nation has sanctioned it and the wrath of God would be upon this nation. Let the wrath of God be upon individuals who choose to abort since this would be a personal choice.
By: Michael on April 15, 2010
at 1:13 pm
, because i heard a leader tryin to criticize the church leaders.i still vote no,Kenyans want change,n a rule that will govern them.leaders failed on their part to amend the const.church is a community where all lifeskills should be taught, otherwise i wonder who else would guide us on these things.
By: Rose on April 15, 2010
at 9:38 pm
“cursed is the man who accepts a bribe to kill an innocent person..” (Deuteronomy 27:25)
“you shall not kill..”(Exodus 20:13). Taking the life of the unborn is clearly murder..”He did not kill me in the womb, with my mother as my grave”(Jer 20:17)..and God vowed to punish those who ripped open the womb with child..(Amos 1:13)
God is ‘pro-choice’, but He tells us clearly the only acceptable choice to make. “i have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live..” (Deuteronomy 30:19)
God speaks very clearly in the Bible on the value of unborn children. God’s word says that He personally made each of us, and has a plan for each LIFE..
(have a look at..)
Jer 1:5..
Gal 1:15..
Job 10:8-12..
Is 44:2..
Job 31:15..
Man is made in God’s own image (Gen 1:27), each life is of great value to God. Children are a gift from God..(Ps 127:3)..He even calls our children His own..
In His hand is the life of every living thing and the breath of every human being (Job 12:10)..
God, the gives of life, commands us not to take the life of an innocent person..”do not shed innocent blood” (Jer 7:6)
pray over this issue and may God guid us and prepare us as we head to make this choice..
But remember.. REGARDLESS, THE BIBLE IS OUR OWN CONSTITUTION which can never be changed by man or any powerful creature..coz God never changes..He is the same yesterday, today and forever..
God bless..
Amen..
By: Andrew Kithinji on April 16, 2010
at 7:05 am
I wish someone could experience what i did before they even dare comment on the issue of abortion. I wish someone told me that it was murder, i wish someone warned me before i did it!! I have suffered untold heartache and I have never been able to forgive myself, i live with the guilt of taking another person’s life. And the doctor even commented “he was so big” that broke my heart and I cried for two years, morning the death of my child, a child i never gave the opportunity to experience life. He would have been 5yrs this today.
Abortion is evil and should not be encouraged!! you give the devil an inch, he become a ruler!!! please let us stand up as Christians and fight this draft!
By: Shante on April 16, 2010
at 9:09 am
Shante i pray that the love of God will heal your heart, soul and body. On the other hand this is exactly what we need to avoid.
By: Michael on April 16, 2010
at 9:33 am
I am born again and believe that abortion is wrong.
However, what happens when the mother’s life is in danger? Do we let her die too? I recently lost my sister and her child due to pregnancy complications; I’m therefore speaking from a point of information and experience.
Let people make their choices, afterall salvation is a choice! It is therefore our responsibility as Christians to ensure that education on healthy choices is availed to everyone. Let’s help people make the right choice instead of dictating it to them – then they will know we care.
I also still believe that if the mother’s life is in danger, then it should be saved at all expenses.
Barikiwa!
Beth
By: Beth on April 16, 2010
at 9:56 am
Beth,
The church’s position is that in cases of emergency where the life of the mother is threatened, then the doctors should save the life of the mother. The position you hold is not true. unfortunately some media houses have been misrepresenting the church saying that the church is against the saving
the mother if her life is in danger. this is a lie.
By: Michael on April 16, 2010
at 2:52 pm
the church is light of the world,we don’t conform to pattern of this world but we are ambassadors of JESUS.we push for Christ agenda not human,government not even ours.my bros and sis stand firm in WORD of GOD and not draft,push for kingdom of GOD i beseech thee my brethren.if you vote yes you simply give the issue go ahead.but now you have power to say no please use it wisely.if you vote no you oppose the issue whether loosing or winning the blood of the fetus that will die will not be upon you.I say like Joshua me and my house will serve JESUS even if all of you turn away from him.Jeremiah says pray for the land you are in bcoz if calamity comes you will also be affected—righteousness exalts a nation but sin is reproach to any people.OOOOOH JESUS ARISE AND LET YOUR ENEMIES BE SCATTERED.WE CAST DOWN ALL THOUGHTS,KNOWLEDGE AND ARGUMENTS THAT RISE AGAINST KNOWLEDGE OF WORD OF GOD.
By: isaac gichinga on April 18, 2010
at 3:54 am
I am sorry about this matter.
One I believe its not a personal choice, the reason being that when I was in college, while pursuing a course in nursing, I happened to work in a private hospital.
I witnessed many cases of abortion. But this is not the issue since we know this already. What was happening is the issue. As we continue saying unless if the life of the mother is in danger we are right but who decides when or if it is in danger.
This question is because, while I was in that hospital, I witnessed doctors who did everything to protect themselves. How, on the patients cards, it was always written and I quote “incomplete abortion”. This means incase of any medical complications, the doctor could not be sued. After all he only helped to save a life that was threatened. I was there when girls came and I do know that they had not attempted to abort.
We are also ignorant of what doctors write on our cards and we never bother to know. This is the problem because even as a church, we are opposing but if called for a forum discussion, many of church leaders will not explain why they are opposed to it.
My point is that we are only trying to protect doctors who are earning a lot of money from it but not girls and women.
Lastly the church must participate in doing civic education to their flock.
Don’t just tell us it is wrong without explanations. The same is going on about family planning. The church says no without explanations. So people say we will listen but it is me to suffer if I get 10 children and I am not able to support.
Politicians know how to twist stories to fit them. Let the church give facts and try to reach out to all. Not all have TV and Radios. Get people out to talk about this matter from a church perspective.
By: Margaret on April 18, 2010
at 10:35 am
those saying we should not participate in ‘politics” are telling us to pray and fast for our nation not to legislate abortion but we wake up from our prayer closets on referendum day hoping a miracle has happened and attorney general has written something new and we ‘faithfully”vote yes.i will be the last man to have “faith without action”i will pray,preach and lobby against abortion and kadhi court and seriously vote against the same.you are blessed brethren.
By: isaac gichinga on April 19, 2010
at 2:15 am
I believe sincerely that life and death are in the hands of God The Almighty Creator and giver of life. Any choices made to save life must consinder both mother’s and that of the unborn. We should always be guided by what the Word of God says, even when it seems like we are chosing to lose our beloved. On issues of rape, this is my take: A crime is committed by the perpetrators on an innocent victim who then conceives. The sin upto this point has been commited by the perpetrator, and the society’s duty is to facilitate the victim to recover from the trouma of rape. She may be facilitated to give birth and give up the baby for adoption. However when we criminalise conception and procure an abortion, then sin number two is commited this time by the previously innocent victim. The victim this time is the unborn who had been innocent to the crime and sin. Further not only would the society have to facilitate the rape victim in dealing with trouma of rape, but in dealing with guilt of murder. Talk to any one who has aborted and this is always true.
The rule of 10/90 in how we respond to actions against us is applicable here. 10% consists of the proportion of what is done to us. 90% consists of how we respond to the what is done. Abortion would make up part of the 90% complication for the rape victim alongside anger, self hate, guilt, etc. May be a psychiatrist can assist in this. All this seems to stem from upside/down values. pregnancy is not a crime and is not a sin. preceding actions may be sinful. LETS PRAY THAT WE GET OUR VALUES IN ORDER TO THE GLORY OF GOD
By: Ruth on April 19, 2010
at 8:52 am
Abortion is a apersonal choice,afterall,if it was a state choice,then they would also be deciding when a person gets pregnanat.
IT IS NONE OF THE STATE’S PROBLEM!
Some church leaders are just pretenders,abortion is matter of ethics,pastors should preach purity in church and let the followers decide.Afterall,is abortion the only sin really?????
By: julie on April 19, 2010
at 8:55 am
Michael, you castigate Beth’s stand in away I think is not right. If the church’s stand is that the life of the mother should be saved by the doctor in case of it being in danger then the church should support because that’s exactly what the draft constitution says!
Honestly we are mixing legal and medical issues with matters of spirituality in away that is not going to help us move forward. According to me, if you define in the face of the constitution when life begins, which the church itself initiated, rightly so of course, then you must define exceptions in the face of it and that’s what has been done! This does not amount to defining when life ends, that we leave to God. Let’s learn to separate issues and see them for what they are for that matter.
By: Joshua on April 20, 2010
at 6:28 am
Joshua,
First i want to say that i did not castigate Beth. Please check the comments posted again. Having said that the church is not against doctors saving the life of the mother if endangerment by the pregnancy, you need to read the section on abortion to see the glaring openings the section gives towards abortion-for example it gives the exception of abortion on grounds of the “health” of the mother-this can easily be misused-A woman can claim that they are psychologically traumatized by a pregnancy and their health is affected negatively and therefore demand for abortion. They would not have broken any law unless we amend this section so that the only exception is when the life of the mother is threatened.
By: Michael on April 20, 2010
at 7:29 am
no abortion, please. state hove to help any pregnant woman.
By: hometownhostel.com on April 20, 2010
at 10:56 am
I am so happy about the way things have turned round and now more guys are supporting NO to abortion in our constitution! God is seeing all your comments men and women of God, and he will bless you for being passionate in pushing forward his agenda!
@Shante, I’m so sorry for what you went through. I pray that God will heal you and help you to forgive yourself for I am 100% sure that he has already forgiven you. I am here for you and will be praying for you.
@Beth, please do not tell us that you are speaking from a point of knowledge because what you are saying is simply based on the error of a doctor or doctors who waited too long before doing their work which led to an unfortunate occurrence for you. I’m sorry you lost your sister and the baby but the international doctors’ code of ethics clearly states that IN THE CASE WHERE A DOCTOR HAS TO DECIDE BETWEEN SAVING THE LIFE OF A MOTHER OR HER UNBORN BABY, HE SHOULD SAVE THAT OF THE MOTHER. In your case, somebody failed to do their job properly.
@Andrew Kithinji, Michael and Martyn, you guys have really blest my heart with your relentless fight against the adoption of this evil in our constitution. Thanks Andrew for that wonderful expose on the scriptures.
@Joshua and ALL OTHER YES SUPPORTERS:
1. Abortion is murder and God clearly commands us not to kill. I mean, ten commandments brethren!
2. The constititution does NOT say ‘Abortion is legal’ but it says the choice is left to a medical practitioner (who can be even a nurse aid) and ‘health’ of mother is too general a term. That means anyone claiming to be ‘depressed’ due to the pregnancy is warranted to abort.
3. The argument that it is a matter of choice is irrelevant. Every crime committed is a matter of choice. Criminals choose to kill, rape, rob, etc. Why don’t we then just legalise every criminal offense in our constitution then? After all, it’s all a matter of choice!
4. Why were the 80% of Christians in Kenya so eager to protest against the draft constitution when it had contentitious political issues and yet they are now not eager to insist on the religious, spiritual, IN FACT BIBLICAL issue of abortion? Where you stand on this clearly shows where your heart is.
5. Those saying that this draft is the best we’ve ever had politically, do you really think that it is our constitution that determines the destiny of our country? Personally I know that it is God. If we have a politically perfect constitution that doesn’t please God where will we be heading? It is better to obey God’s word than to follow political ambition! Remember, seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all other things will be added unto you. Matthew 6:33
6. The great commission in Matthew 28:16-20 requires us to preach the gospel to those who don’t know Christ. I am surprised that ‘Christians’ can actually sit back and say that abortion is a “personal choice.” That’s like saying “If someone wants to abort, let her do it! God will judge him/her! Not me!” And you are very wrong!!!! If you are born again God requires you to be your brother’s and sister’s keeper. Remember Ezekiel says that if a watchman sees the enemy coming and does not sound the alarm to the sleeping townsmen, their deaths shall be on his head! You as a Christian know what is right and it is your duty to warn those who don’t! By insisting that our constitution must now allow for abortion, we are reaching those people who don’t read the bible and who don’t know the laws of God! By campaigning against this, JUST LOOK HOW MANY SCRIPTURES HAVE BEEN SHARED ON THIS FORUM! If an unbeliever is looking at this page, don’t you see that he is actually reading the WORD OF GOD!!!!!
Come on men and women of God! Let’s continue to say NOOOOOOOOOO to abortion in our constitution!
By: AnonymousLady on April 20, 2010
at 3:10 pm
…on point 6, I mean “our constitution must not allow… not must now… Sorry, was typing furiously fast!…lol
By: AnonymousLady on April 20, 2010
at 3:14 pm
Initially the clause of abortion was to read.abortion is not allowed in kenya,bt the COE added the clause unless the mother’s life is in danger. this clause is the one that brought the issue of abortion to be contentious.
By: karugah on April 21, 2010
at 12:29 pm
Abortion very sensitive issue i must say.To save the mom or the child? My thoughts are very simple abortion should not be included in the constitution.The fact is constitution is a national document that will outlast generations.The very foundation we lay today will affect our kids as parents.Abortion has always and will be a sin.Lets stop the mumbo jumbo and stick to God’s word which by the way will always be the final authority.
By: Charles Kemboi on April 21, 2010
at 4:55 pm
Karugah,
The church does not contest the clause above as you understand. The church is against the clause that talks the “health” of the mother. Please read the article on abortion and be informed so that we don’t misrepresent the position of the church.
By: Michael on April 22, 2010
at 7:16 am
1) To murder an INNOCENT person,including the unborn child, cannot be a matter of personal choice. We must avoid the law of the jungle at all costs.
2) The laws of any country must safe guard the true good of ALL its people. The strong must not be given the right to destroy & exploit the legitimate rights of the weak and the voiceless.
3) The laws of any country must be made so that people know what is fair & justly expected of them even if they refuse to follow the actual law. The latter accounts for the criminals in society, corruption, murder, theft, INTENTIONAL abortion & many other social evils.
4) We must not be confused and deceived as Christians that since the draft constitution maybe 99% Correct then we must vote for it as it is. With God we are either WITH Him or AGAINST him.The truth remains that we are only truly & sincerely Christian when we are with God 100%. There is NO middle or neutral ground.
5) The current draft constitution PERMITS abortion under SPECIFIC situations as per Clause 26(4). It is sheer deceit & / or ignorance by COE and politicians & any other person(s) to deny this truth.
6) Every person born or unborn must have equal rights under the constitution. And doctors as per the hypocratic oath must save ALL lives & not choose one life over another as though one life is of more value than another.
7) Why must the lives of the unborn be threatened with murder while we wait for another date or time after the referendum to ammend clause 26(4).Why do we want blood of the innocent on our hands untill we are able to ammend this clause at some later future date? This is not reasonable or Godly.
8) The draft constiuition must be equal for every faith & not give some faiths special treatment under the judiciary even if this may have been the case since independence. Surley we are now trying to rectify the wrongs or the inequality of the past & NOT continue with them.
9) The Shepherds of the Church & ALL genuine Christians & those of good will must stand and simply say NO to this draft constitution untill the changes are done. It is Best to be with God then to be against him in any area no matter whether or not you loose your other rights by standing up for Him. E.g it may be your right to continue holiding a job that you are competent & qualified for because you have a right to make a living before God. But if holding the job means compromising your Christian faith & treating God & his laws with contempt then you must let it go, fight against the unjustice where possible, even though you have every right to a livelihood & merit the job. In this way you are a true & genuine witness that you love God ABOVE everything else. This is the true Christian & what God demands of us. Anything else is counterfeit;Not good enough.
10) The shepherds of the Church have the God given right to guide & feed the sheep in all matters of faith, morals & true religion. Even when the Shepherds are considered dubious Scripture is very clear that we must do what they say but not what they do.
By: Amani Hera on April 26, 2010
at 2:41 pm
The Freemasons think that they will not be exposed.Just think on a very serious note:What would Mwai Kibaki,Raila Odinga,Mutula Kilonzo,Nzamba kitonga,Njoki ndungu,kiraitu murungi,paul muite,PLO lumumba etc.. have in common? some of these people are sworn enemies.What would make them agree on something as like kadhis courts(yet they claim to be Christians),legalizing abortion(some of them said they wouldn’t support it in public very recently) as well as submit to international statutes without the authority of Kenyans( i even saw Obama on TV bow to the King of Saudi Arabia the other day ).The American ambassador is also campaigning for this draft.
Do you see the connection here?If you notice these people are not open to dialogue and are even angry at any opposition.They want to impose their new world order on everybody and to especially oppose Christianity and Jews who are their mortal enemies.If you notice on the international stage,the State of Israel as well as the Catholic church is under attach.Homosexuality and abortion is the norm.These is in no way isolated to the constitutional debate we are having here in Kenya.
Christians who are actually falling prey to the tricks of the enemy and going with the tide of supporting this draft need look deep in their hearts and honesty question their alliance is it to Jesus Christ?
By: George on April 30, 2010
at 9:23 am
The issue is nt abt makin abortion legal.bkoz its NOT legal n has never bn in kenya.1st i wud rather see women talkin abt it on tv, nt men who have nothing 2 do with carryin pregnancies .That being said,luk @ wat happens n has bin hapening 4 a long tym even with the current const. Back strt abortions happen everyday.N even afta the const is passed ts still gona happen. To rob sam1 is not legal according 2 our const bt that doesnt stop pple from robing and stealing.When it comes down 2 it ts a personal decision n u choose 2 do it or not 2 do it.
once jst @ least once the pastor could stand on the pullpit n admit he or she aint as perfect he seems tell the people that No one is perfect.Now that wud b samthing gud.
YES
By: Nyce lady on May 2, 2010
at 9:28 am
People who think or say arbortion is personal should first look at what appears on both their birth certificates and their national ID.. Is it their name or is it the Kenyan court of arms plus the heading REPUBLIC OF KENYA… first it is the republic in capital letters followed by the individual’s name way down the document.So you belong to the state first before you can be an individual belonging to self.How then can arbortion be a personal matter when even the individual who is “choosing” , belongs to the state first and then to oneself 2nd.
By: George on May 3, 2010
at 12:34 pm
I am happy that Kenyans and in particular Christians are now begining to see through the clauses that are defective in the proposed draft. As a person who has worked in the field of Reproductive Health for more than 15 years now, I have witnessed very conserted efforts by International NGOs working locally in pushing for the legalisation of Abortion. They have tended to over dramatise the mortality rate among the mothers without giving all the facts that lead to this grave factors. What we need is more emphasises on sexuality education and effective Family Planning services. Much as the clergy is being castigated for voicing their concerns, I feel most people (including most media) are not reporting the real issues. Everyone (the church included) has no problem with abortion under stringent conditions when the health of the mother is in danger. What is worrying is the blanket use of the term “trained health professional”. This term is too vague and could be abused to allow all manner of people mascquerading as health professionals to give their opinion and determine who should provide these services. We should adapt the guidelines already in existence by The Medical Board which is quite explicit in this area. Article 26(4) also allows abortion under other law. This also makes it possible for a loop hole where other laws e.g Reproductive health Bill (2008) to be operationalised after the Constitution is passed. This bill opens the door to all manner of reasons to allow abortion and actually seeks to punish health service providers who refuse to offer these services or activelly refer women seeking abortion services. In clause 43(1) b, the definition of health has been expounded to include reproductive health care. This definition is suspect, as we know that one of the elements of Reproductive health service is provision of abortion services. The CoE should not try to bring in new definitions that are actually not what we currently subscribe to under the WHO criteria. These deliberate distortions, is what is making this draft constitution look suspect. I will therefore vote NO if no amendments are made.
By: Elder on May 3, 2010
at 5:24 pm
Dear Elder,
Thank you so much.You have actually hit the nail on the head.What most people don’t understand is that the clause on abortion is actually a green light for legalising abortion.not figuratively but actually.For example when the COE writes……..OR ANY OTHER WRITTEN LAW…. my first thoughts go to the case of ROE VS WADE ( US SUPREME COURT 1972).
Well, whereas the US constitution doesn’t legalise abortion,today abortion is legal in the USA because of a Clause like ……..ANY OTHER WRITTEN LAW
When the US Supreme court ruled that it was a woman’s right to choose,in the case of ROE VS WADE, this became a written law.The aim of the COE is a similar precedent by the kenyan courts and WELLA!! abortion will be legal in kenya.That’s what they don’t want people to realise until its too late.My fellow brothers and Sister don’t be fooled.This is the truth of the matter and if it isn’t let the COE prove otherwise!
By: George on May 4, 2010
at 9:13 am
Thank you George,
I have written severally on the issue of Abortion and the apparent push by both NGOs and the civil society to have it legalised but most of my articles to the secular newspapers have been ignored and never published. This issue of abortion is bigger than what Kenyans actually know and its a pity that the media has only championed the side they are supporting. As a person who has been in the sector of Reproductive health, it pains to see bluntant lies and deceptions where the public is only given what is sensational without the real picture being made clear. It would be good if Kenyans read the proposed Consitution thoroughly before agreeing wholesale to what our politicians and some of our learned friends are saying. Legalising abortion is not the panacea of unplanned pregnancies. To me, I see alot of the Feminism agenda in all this disguised as empowerment of our women yet in reality, we will soon be treating our women and unborn babies as mere statistics. Curently, we already have abortion clinics being run by international affiliated NGOs all over the country and it is no secret that some of the International NGOs in Reproductive Health have had a hand in the development of these suspect clauses as they were heavily presented in the technical committees right from Bomas to the CoE.
By: Elder on May 4, 2010
at 11:39 am
Mankind, GOD’s ABSOLUTES are not subject to debate, suggestions and/or opinions. Human beings are a very short-sighted lot: Why do you want to break a principle that will end up destroying you?
My take is: Thou Shall Not Kill. This is final and not subject to any alteration, debate, human wisdom or anything under the sun.
Why is the whole nation wasting too much resources and creating confusion over very simple issue that GOD IN his WISDOM has provide an eternal solution? What is wrong with human beings, they will never learn?
Do they want GOD to give us to deprivity?
By: Daniel Ngobia on May 5, 2010
at 5:55 pm