Posted by: Family Media | April 26, 2010

HAS THE CHURCH LOST ITS CREDIBILITY?

The Bible tells us that in the olden days prophets used to advise the kings on the way forward. Looking at our country today, especially now that we have everyone talking about the draft constitution, is the church playing its rightful role in advising the government? Whatever happened to that “olden-day church” when even kings sought the counsel of priests and prophets?  We have seen different church leaders taking different sides on state matters, and passionately pulling in different directions, leading to confusion among their flocks and Kenyans in general. Could this lack of harmony be a testimony that the integrity of the church is in tatters?  Is the church playing its rightful role in advising the government on the constitution?

Can church leaders be trusted to give sound advice to our country’s leaders?

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Responses

  1. Open Letter to President and Prime Minister Republic of KENYA:

    Dear Sirs,

    To shorten this letter, let me jump straight to the heart of the matter.

    It is time that KENYA made its must important decision as a nation.

    You are seeking or asking Kenyans to endorse a constitution that enshrines the laws of another god and thus accept him over the land.

    So this is the big decision you and the rest have to make :

    If this god is God then let Kenya bow and serve him; If Jesus Christ is God then let Kenya bow down and serve Him.

    The prime minister will said, “If you don’t vote for it the current constitution still contains this law!”

    Your position is really you prerogative and am not going to get personal.

    Yet note this sir(s), as for me and my house (which includes me, my children, there children, their children’s children) we shall not be party to endorsing another god over Kenya. Let it be recorded in Heaven and Earth that I representing the ‘afore’ mentioned to the 3rd and 4th generation was and shall not be party to lifting another deity over the land of Kenya.

    Note sir(s), when these laws were entrenched in the constitution at independence, neither I nor my fathers, nor his father endorsed it.

    That’s why there have no authority over me or my house. For me to side with you would mean I stand and endorse the same.

    Kenya you have come to your ‘valley of decision’:

    Decide if this god is the one who has given you peace all this years,
    If it’s him who kept your cities and fields.

    As for me sir(s), I know who has kept me and my house. Jesus Christ of Nazareth is His name. I choose to stand on His side no matter what.

    • Leo,

      Our Good Lord Bless you.

      One wishes that more Christians would:
      1, read the document .
      2. weigh it against the Holy word of God.
      3. Pray for the revelation as their partake in endorsing it.

      Just a reminder for all Christians – note wording of clause 4:

      Article 26 Right to life
      26. (1) Every person has the right to life.
      (2) The life of a person begins at conception.
      (3) A person shall not be deprived of life intentionally, except to the extent authorised by this Constitution or other written law.
      (4) Abortion is not permitted unless, in the opinion of a trained health professional, there is need for emergency treatment, or the life or health of the mother is in danger, or if permitted by any other written law.

  2. The Bible commands us to trust in God and He will establish us and to believe in the prohpets and will shall be prosperous.

    My challenge to all the church going Christians if we can not believe in our prophets now with things that they can justify then we have NO business going to church every sunday listening to them because it means every other thing they say is crap.This is not a one person prophesy but many.

    Another challenge to my fellow Christians is – all the other religions believe in their spiritual leaders to the point of death yet this has not been asked of us.Jehova hates the the proud lets humble ourselves from the too much head knowledge and listen to the humble voice of our Lord.
    We may look like fools right now but the wisdom of God is foolishness to those perishing (like the time of Noah before it is too late)

    I join Wisdom Leo to say NO for me and my family and my generations to come as the wrath of Jehova befalls the Yes people we will be saved like Noahs times(Noah and his family survived)

    Remember our God never changes He is the same yesterday,today and forever.

  3. Unfortunately the church leaders have not shown directions on this matter. But my personal view is the kadhi cannot be secular. they are religious courts and for that matter muslim courts. kenya is a collection of many faiths and thus putting the kadhi courts in our judicial system is tantamount to forcing non muslims to fund through their taxes a faith they dont subscribe to. Matters of marriage cannot be a secular issue. you cannot talk about marriage without talking about God. I will Vote NO. I cant fund another religion through the taxes i pay.

  4. I believe that the church is relevant whether people like it or not. The church is the body of Christ and not the building, and Christ is the head. Though they may not agree with the church. The church should not feel threatened coz Jesus said, On this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail. For that reason the church which is you and me who have confessed Christ as our savior; should speak the truth and stand for it even if others are against. The reason being that the truth will always be the truth not how much one may want to deny it.

  5. It is an opportunity of a lifetime to comment on the matter before us.To start with,I would like to say that men of God receive a lot of beating in this nation from a citizenry that is so apostate.Any person that want things easy will always hang his lack of strength in blaming someone or something.The fact that our leaders are facing opposition,ridicule and contempt does not amount to their lack of divine connection or mandate.The world is presenting them with an opportunity to show what they are made of.At this point let it be known that there will be votes against the draft that in the eyes of the church is so cleverly crafted.Bash your leaders if you are Essau material not knowing the things that matter.Our christian leaders are exercising what is their mandate divine wheather they sway public opinion or not.The son of God encountered great opposition Himself.On the cross it seemed a blow.Today we sing His victory.As someone quoted,only the dead fish flow with the flow.We swim

  6. The old testament is a story of a people and their relation with God. It is God showing us the way that Man’s heart is. There is a cycle that is continous :
    1. there was poverty/hunger/slavery
    2. the people cried to God.
    3. He raised a prophet.
    4. the prophet annoited a King.
    5. the King did what was right in the eyes of God
    6. The King destroyed the alters that the people had erected.
    7. God heard their cry and He delivered them/ propspered them.
    8. As the prosperity grew, the Kings forgot the Blesser and focused on the blessings and hence ignored the Lord.
    9. The nation walked away from God.
    10. He priests lost their way and became heretic.
    10. the nation was taken captivity!

    The church has not lost its credibility – BECAUSE IT IS NOT JUDGED According to man standard, But as a nation we are walking away from God.

    God helps His remnants to pray for this Nation since what will follow is Judgement!

  7. Am glad this morning that am a life and God’s mercy so sufficient on me
    Just shortly on the constitution am very much surprised by the church leaders when am among the that we tend to forget what the bible says first from the story of Ester when she was told that all the Israelite were going to be killed she never thumbed has chest but she used pray way to get the solution.The bible is so clear that ask and you will be give seek and you will find knock and it will be opened. the problem with our church leaders is the do a lot of talking instate of going in to prayer.
    Thanks
    May God Bless Kenya
    Regards
    Were

    • It is a challenging moment for Kenya yes.I am a priest and to an extent a church leader,I know we have been accused of so many things and indeed some are true.Others are mere machinations of the enemy.You know the accuser of brethren.We can not essentially say they are doing a lot of talking and less prayer because church as the body of christ is broad.Some priests[pastors]are fervently praying over all these things and more and more laymen and laywomen are on knees.The ones on the high table should not look very frenzied on prayer before camera because the world will not understand it after all.But probably you are right that they too should remember the power resident in prayer.

  8. I agree that it is time for Christians to arise and be counted as being on the LORD’S side. No one can serve two masters and here we are presented with a document that expressly contradicts God’s commandments. May we remember that God’s Law was cast in stone literary never to be changed at our whims.
    The church’s credibility depends on who is listening and whether they want to hear what the church leader is saying. We need to remember that Prophets are never listened to at the time they prophesy and state leaders have of the past prefered to listen to those who say what the leader wants to hear. Why should Christians expect any difference when there is so much to be gained by the secular world!!! Attacking church leaders as prophet Jeremiah was attacked will not minimise the truth of what is being said. I appeal to all Christians to pray that God will visit with every voter and convict them in the ballot box of the truth, and vote for God’s true justice. As for me and my family, even if I stand alone I know God will always stand with me so I will stand with Him. 2nd Chronicles 21 The battle is The LORD’s. Just do your part and wait on the Lord as you praise Him.

  9. Dear brethren,cut it short, the church has lost no credibility.But i ask myself in deep thoughts if the position taken by the clergy is the right direction. One, i know for sure the abortion clause was brought by the churchs’ demand. casting the net wide, many of us christians view the inclusion of kadhis courts as a burden on christians in terms of tax,but i ask myself if those we castigate(muslims) do not pay any tax to pay my aunt who is a C.R.E teacher,a christian minister or even fuel levy!
    all the same, we subscribe to individual thought, thats why i am me and i believe that this document is both good and somewhat yet it brings a better tomorrow.
    i for sure would not forgo this on the strength of the performance of our members if parliament.the recall clause makes me desire to pass this constitution and institute ammendments later because i dont wish to see ever bickering politicians who are not accountable.
    let us all read this draft, make informed choices and seek the LORD’S guidance.Remember Gen 28:15
    God bless you

  10. Do Christians know that the Muslims are always ready to die for what they believe in? It’s time true Christians carried their own crosses following Christ! Good luck to all who say ‘NO’.

  11. This is a time of little confusion but not crisis.I have urgued elsewhere that if we let emotions take over this thing,it will be catastrophic.Essentially Christians are not known to shed blood but even hatred and disharmony brings discord among brethren.I am aware Lawy that Muslims are almost always ready to die for their faith but more so killing for it.Whereas we can die anytime duty calls,not yet.We christians will never again kill like we did in the 14th century if I get the date correct.By this time we had targeted non Christians including but not limited to muslims[as activists would say]at edessa,and the entire Holy city.We wont repeat that.We dont kill in the name of god,we die in Jesus` name!I have always maintains that concerning Kadhis courts as muslims entities,it is not justified at all.They should not be removed because again that is not justice.Justice is when you give what is justified to all…or non to all.I would be happy if the constitution frame said that THERE ARE RELIGIOUS COURTS RECOGNIZED,FULL STOP.I would not be happy if they are removed because that would be tantamount to suppression.Why would one be happy?As a priest myself I know that religious advance is about relevance and strategy.And remember God for us means power in the name of jesus.Real thing.Prayer and courage,knowledge and courage are tools we need to reach out muslims.These days God is saving muslims even when we are not involved,this is power.And so you thought we have not won already?Take it from me and do not worry unless you may.If a muslims reads this he will know a christian loves them,prays for them but is not sure whether they love him[I have personal friends who are muslim,but we were in college together]
    Why do christians feel afraid as muslims allege?Are they afraid of losing their faith?Where is it kept?Is it where rust or moth doth feed?Afraid of death?At most!
    Abortion clause should have been ammended at least to narrow our fears real or imaginary,but especially real.But all this is unlikely.
    The draft may either pass or fail.But God will not lose.Mungu asiyeshindwa ndiye najua.am sure this is not over statement.
    And-Conclusion;
    In my opinion a christian is always willing to be killed for the course of christ any time somewhere.But that is when her faith is touched,nobody so far has touched my faith,Jesus,my Lord,my king,My healer,my friend,My End.What they have touched is justice.Justice denied is not handled as when a raw nerve is touched-Saviour,Lord.
    My vote is No for the cost of collective duty of the clergy,but I think our members should not lose confidence on themselves.When real faith is provoked,if so,they we will mobilise all artillary.Prayer women and men of God will camp on the mountain untill it is over,Men like us will interpret what step we are and what it means to the Way,and preachers will preach and incite and our prophets will prophesy.What is the big deal?
    [But when you hear some tell us they can fully interpret scripture both gospel and law without our help whatsoever,then pray why need priests in this age.If I can download law from the net,then,pray why need lawyers?If my aging church father has some glucose management concern,why need a doctor instead of checking the net on diabetes causes,management and drugs?I mean this is the extent that kenyans disrespect schools they did not attend.If so ,then, Why dont we give double yes to kadhis our neighbours so direly need since they are authority to their matters?Seariously.
    Credibility crisis?No way.If clergy have previous been unfaith to their union with jesus and church,God has been constantly faithful.He is just and be sure he knows where to get us.He does not use our members to disclipline us because his own justice satisfies and washes us better.But he uses us to discipline our members for restoration.

  12. The church has no business speaking on behalf of its members myself included in the name of advising the government on the constitution. Reasons: 1. Its not equipped to tender legal opinions, indeed only LSK is by law mandated to advice government and Kenyans on matters law as a body! Stick to your core mandate….preaching the Gospel!
    2. The Church didn’t consult its membership (myself included) to determine what position is congruent with its members views….this shows how undemocratic an institution the church is….despite its self appointed righteousness!
    3. The church should not engage in state or political affairs….as Jesus said….give unto God his due and unto Caesar his as well!
    4. Holiness cannot be propagated through use of coercive tools Like the law, only through exercise of free will to keep to the commands of God! Trying to force a whole population(some of whom are not Christians) to do as God says, even for its own good is an unchristian principle, violating free will-which not even the giver thereof controls-i.e. God! Abortions will not stop because the law says so….at all; and their reduction will only arise by having practicing Christians in Kenya-(including in the church leadership) and only God’s grace and fervent preaching will attain this….not by the church engaging in state capture by controlling contents of legislation! Salvation is by choice…..and NCCK has forgot that freedom is one of the key christian values!

  13. I was ordained into ministry last year and as both a young and youthful clergy I keep asking myself the question: “WHO IS FOOLING WHO?”. why am I saying so?:
    1. is this a test of Christians’ leadership or followership?
    2. If the leadership is sincere with us, my “senior” what is it that you are not telling us about the division amongst you especially in this constitutional talk and on matters regarding politics?, what historical justices/injustices occured between you that we are not aware of?
    3. as a church, we use to have a strong voice on political matters in the previous geneartion that gave birth to credible articles and publications on Church and State, where and why did we loose it as a leadership?
    4. Reading the Lanchaster, Bomas, Kilifi, Wako, Harmonised draft and the proposed draft on the Kadhis Courts, I realised that a lot of alterations have been made. Of much interest is the last two in which; Harmonized draft was a replica of the Lanchaster, but after it came to us for opinions and back to the Committee of Experts, something strange happened: it was no longer “within former protectorate” but “within Kenya”. I wondered, how serious our opinions no longer matters. WHY IS THIS?…
    5. Checking the SULUMETTI REPORT ON THE CONTENTIOUS ISSUES from Bomas, I realized christian delegates took us for a ride. Because Kadhis Courts was not listed as a contentious issue. Meaning this is a trend that started long time.
    WHO IS FOOLING WHO? Until we address this puzzle to our congregants, we are out for a rude shock come the referendum. Were we compromised in Bomas by handouts? please let them tell us the truth?
    I will not doubt this because we have always been silent demagogues of politicians. No wonder they cant listen to our leadership. WHO IS FOOLING WHO?
    6. Billions to fund our campaigns? why not millions to evangelize our land?
    7. Uhuru Park…Is it Prayers or Conforming to the standards of politicians?
    I wonder why Muslims are silent in this entire process. May be they will soon be treating us to shameful and crazy revelations on what happened in Bomas and the politics of the time.
    Please fellow servants in the Vineyard, our congregants might be suspicious of us, because either they know “too much” or “too little” or “nothing at all”
    I will also add to Family Media’s quetion: CAN WE CHURCH LEADERS BE TRUSTED?
    “WHO IS FOOLING WHO?”- what don’t we know of this generation of church leadership that the state has turned deaf ears to?

    • Ofula,

      I wonder what they taught you at the seminary.When the other church leaders are fighting to protect the innoccent future citizens of this nation all you can do is criticise them.How can the kadhi’s court not be an issue if you are a christian?there other day 500 christians were murdered in cold blood in Jos state in Nigeria by muslims.Also have you heard of christian courts in Iran,Saudi Arabia or Pakistan?
      Please if you are a real church leader as you claim, then i expect more wisdom from you not such falacies like in your article.

  14. Surely bro, for how long shall we continue with this hypocrisy? leadership is about integrity with consistency. You are either hot or cold, because being lukewarm guarantees no place in the Kingdom. I choose to be either of this!
    They know Kadhis courts are bad, including Muslim women- “the message is very correct, but the medium of communication is doubted even by our congregants” e.g. If we are 80% and democracy is about mobilising the numbers, watch out for Saturday.
    Why the fear of Muslims in such a claimed Godly country? Or are we now doubting if we are as Christian as we thought?
    If I am wrong Stu please teach me… Islam is not just a self proclaimed faith but has become “Fundamentalism”. When we go around throwing tantrums about their faith while they invest in Madrasa classes, what are we destined to be? Bro, this is not about now, but the future. “belief in an idea that last, has to be encultured in a generation for its posterity” And, how “encultured” are we in Christianity. i.e. discipled?
    1. By the way, in such a situation WWJD? Would He go and whip everyone in Parliament or State House saying, “my house shall be a place of prayer” or to the church shouting, “go ye and make disciples of me.”
    2. Are we celebrating of QUANTITY of Christians or QUALITY of Christians?
    3. Can a house divided ever stand?
    ” Let us reason together because wisdom is in many counsel, Please sir.”
    AND BY THE WAY, THE CHURCH’S CREDIBILITY IS IN CHRIST AND NOT MAN,(“the measure of Christianity is not christians but Christ”) so it is us to represent Him well in this country.

    • Ofula,

      That’s exactly my point.Faith without action is dead.If christian leaders don’t raise up and oppose this evel,in the next 5years we probably won’t even be able to build churches but they will be building madrassas as you very correctly put it.
      Christianity doesn’t operate in a vaccum and isn’t exempt from the constitution.By the way you might not even have a job once the draft constitution passes because it states that “you shall not propagate your faith to another person ” .You being a Rev. means you will be out of a job so you better start looking for another job.Infact preachers should be fighting against this draft with all their might because they will join the chiefs in the jobless market.
      On a very serious note, it is important to note that most members of the COE as well as the minister for Justice though proclaiming the “christian Faith” have no christian names………I wonder??.The chairman of the Parliamentary select commitee and the chairman of the IIEC are both muslims……..is this a coincidence.
      Pastor Ken you should be worried…Very worried things are not as easy as they look on paper.This is an all out war and if the Church loose..s we are in real deep trouble.

  15. My view is that we are getting too emotional about the draft constitution as Christians and thereby fighting the wrong battle. We have forgotten the real enemy, the devil. i suggest we stand still, stop talking too much, call on God, and see His salvation. Church, are you listening………

    • Patricia,

      Faith without action is indeed dead.We can’t keep quite when the church is under seige.This battle is against the enemy.Ofcourse he doesn’t come complete with horns and a tail , but his manifestations are everywhere on this draft for instance…………..
      many members of the COE as well as the minister for justice whereas “proffessing the christian faith” have no christian names??? the chairmen of both the PSC and IIEC are both muslims ………Is this coinsidence or is it?? i almost smell a rat i just don’t know where it is

  16. I am Ex-Muslim and my view is that if the church does not stand firm today Kenya will soon become like Nageria and Islamic state. Christians will be forced to tribute to Islam. For example we have a church and the plot were rented was sold to another Muslim rich man on 4.5m because Christian in Garissa Town wanted to buy it. The selling price of the plot was only 750,000/=. Secondly what will happen to the young christian girls married by muslim rich? Their children will taken from them if they think of returning to their children families? They took my wife and kid from me. We should speak when we can (now) or forever hold our peace.

  17. Much as a lot is being said that as Christians we should be tolerant to our muslim brothers, I think it is not fair to expect us to vote Yes just because we do not want to antagonise them. If by default, the Kadhi courts despite being stipulated in the current constitution that they were meant for only the 10 mile coastal strip, have already spread to other places what guarantee is there that our issues besides the marriage, divorce and inheritance will find their way. As Stu clearly says the CoE members seem to have a common denominator. I checked their profile, and all but maybe 2 are former human rights activists/lawyers hence their likely prejudices on the abortion clauses. It would have been prudent to have had people of different legal/social background as this would have brought out the diversity in opinion on some of the contentious issues. At times it does not matter what the majority will be voting but as an individual I have decided I will vote with my conviction. If there will be only one NO vote, rest assured it will be mine.

  18. It’s true our church leaders have brought some elements of doubt especially to those who are born again. Have been asking myself if our God can contradict Himself- It’s not possible..

    I think they should first confirm that they have heard the voice of God before giving us contradicting views.

    But I would advice our christian brothers to reed first the Draft and understand it. God bless our Spiritual leaders, we respect them and we are still praying for them.

  19. The church is perfectly doing its mandate as a watchman, and perfectly living by the bible, the issue of abortion is an abomination to the Lord, and Kenya a largely Christian nation should not allow this to be legalised, In the event that abortion must take place,the sperm donor should be consulted, men should also be serious about their seed that God has trusted to them and make shure that it is used only to women who are willing to carry their babies. Let us note call those who advocate abortion Christians, They may have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof. We as christions live by faith if awoman is having problems we will pray also that God may heal both the mother and the baby. Gosd is able, let us trust Him

  20. llHello dear Kenyans. Last saturday, I did something I have never done for a long time. I attended the public meeting called by the Church leaders at UUhuru park. While there, like the reserved person that I am, I took a sstrategic position from where I was able to observe all the going on at the main dias and the terraces. When the church leaders entered the venue from the All Saints entrance, an overwhelming feeling engulfed the place and I knew whatever happens we are on the right path. I felt myself really spiritually uplifted and am not ashamed to stand at this time to be counted. Our GOd is an awesome God and we can not disregard Him now and later turn around to seek His mercies once we encounter problems after our decision to enact laws start backfiring on us.

  21. When the likes of Dr. Timothy Njoya and Dr. Gitari were suffering on the streets, being clobbered, the likes of our current crop of clergy agitating for NO were comfortably singing the pro-establishment songs and hearing no evil. The same is true of the then KANU leaders who are now saying no. Surely you cannot trust such people to give the right direction. Allow me also to help some people who are talking of being on God’s side by saying NO. For me, the only way to the Lord’s side is faith in Christ Jesus and accepting Him as Lord and Saviour. Please dont reduce such a highly purchased priviledge to a matter of just saying No to the constitution. We know the current crop of clergy. A majority would certainly vote with their stomachs. Remember the prophecies that came out in 2002 of who God had annointed to be President? That never came to be. It is just because they had been given something. Now you can see the games played in the Starehe constituency parliamentary contest. If some of the clergy cannot even be trusted with the scriptures and have used portions of scriptures to fleece the congregants to their advantage, how would u trust them with interpretation of weighty constitutional matters?They are now talking of using our tithes and offerings for such campaigns. What about the tithes and offerings of those saying yes? Or you now want me to give and not care what use the cash is put? “yes brother and sister in the Lord!!!!” With all due respect, is this the core function of the church? Why such a passion with earthly things yet we have no passion for eternal agenda? Is this the best sacrifice that the Lord would love? Wont He that we reached out to the lost? Dont be surprised but many of the clergy will also go out for fund raising in the name of the constitutin but most of that cash will later be used to buy posh cars and jets immediately after the referendum. Now that nothing was squeezed in their hands, they are out to campaign against the the Yes team. To see how flawed this is, just see those in their camp. Are they also on the Lord’s side coz of saying no? I think it is a high time christians added knowledge to their faith. 2 Peter 1:5-9, because if these things be in you and abide, they make you fruitful but those who lack these things are blind and cannot see far. Please let us be sober. Let the love of God rule over our hearts. That way we will have the right perspective and we will not see those of us saying YES to have backslidden. However, if backsliding is simply by saying YES then i dont mind. However, if salvation or being on the Lord’s side is simply by saying NO, then i dont need such salvation.

    • Dear Joab,

      Just because Raila Odinga says something is good,you don’t just follow this blindly.Some of these former church leaders leave too much to be desired and we actually question their loyalties.Is it really to Jesus Christ or to other gods?
      Having said this,we understand that not all who call Jesus christ Lord Lord actually are his followers.Take for instance the ACK bishops from nyanza who are following gods other than Jesus Christ? I hope you are not in this category.
      Apart from Martha Karua and Kiraitu Murungi, All those other fallows in the Yes camp were also KANU supremos.Some of them even grabbed the Kisume molasses Plant.
      The church hasn’t lost credibility it is the likes of you and some boot licking “church leaders” that don’t even have any credibility in the first place.Otherwise why are you people angry that the church is playing its devine role??


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