Posted by: Family Media | August 10, 2010

Are church leaders being victimised?

Now that the draft constitution was overwhelmingly passed during the August 4th referendum with a clear margin; are people justified in criticising the leadership of the church? What if the ‘No’ went home with a majority of the votes, would we appreciate their efforts?

Someone was quoted in an interview at local TV show saying ‘…I will not shake the hand of any church leader after the referendum…’ Are such statements justified? As leaders, don’t they have a role of educating people?

What is happening? Why are people saying that they have no or little faith in the leadership of the church? Are people victimising church leaders?

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Responses

  1. Without a doubt the Church is under attack. But take heart, God cannot be mocked. For as long as the earth remaineth, seed time and harvest shall not cease; What a man sows, that shall he reap.

    Those who are now busy spitting all manner of venom against the Clergy and the Church, in due time they shall reap what they have sown.

    I urge the Clergy and the practicing Christians to remain steadfast, there is still so so much to be done. Don’t worry about anything, God is still on the throne and in His own time, He will glorify Himself and His people.

    As Christians it is our duty to love and pray for those who persecute us, let us continue to do this, and to thank God for everything, for He is in total control.

  2. Clearly,this is a deliberate attack to the church Leaders. They simply represent Gods opinion. The scriptures show that God’s opinion has never been popular among the masses…!

  3. No one is justified in any way to criticize the people that said no- The church and the clergy.

    In my own understanding, I know that we are headed to the times that the Bible says that people will be lovers of money, insolent, and haters of God- 2Tim 3:1 But be certain of this, that in the last days times of trouble will come. 2For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, uplifted in pride, given to bitter words, going against the authority of their fathers, never giving praise, having no religion, 3 Without natural love, bitter haters, saying evil of others, violent and uncontrolled, hating all good, 4 False to their friends, acting without thought, lifted up in mind, loving pleasure more than God; 5Having a form of religion, but turning their backs on the power of it: go not with these.

    As Christians we need to brace ourselves for such times because they indeed are coming. On the flip side the overwhelming vote against the people in the No camp- The clergy, calls for the church to re examine itself. Why would we advice a nation and they don’t listen. Instead of pointing a finger and calling fire and brimstone on the rest of them, let it be a time that we are looking at our life as the church.

    it is in Kenya where the registrar of societies receives over 100 applications for the registration of a new church. Why can’t these people submit to others. It is in Kenya that one will wake up one day and say from today I will be called apostle and bishop without consecration or ordination. It is an open secret that there are churches in Kenya where people are paying to receive miracles- Am I ruffling feathers? And it is in Kenya on a Sunday morning different TV channels are filled with pastors who are asking people to by anointing oil with their pictures because they have more anointing. Do I have to talk of the money gimmicks?

    The word of Gd is a two edged sword the same word in 2timothy 3 swings back at the church.

    True people called by His name will humble themselves and pray and God will hear from heaven and heal our land.

  4. From my observation, it would have been easier for the clergy to be on the Yes side, and indeed quite a number declared their Yes stand. But the rest decided to stand on God’s word and with it came a serious beating from all corners. But as Emmanuel has said, there are many who are ruining the name of the church as they are in ministry to make cash. This does not mean there are no genuine servants of God. Serious Christians are able to tell the difference, but the majority will only see the negative side of the church. Hence a major refusal by many Kenyans to listen to the clergy and the victimization of all clergy, genuine and the not genuine.

    • Isa 3:9 ¶ The appearance of their faces witnessed against them, And their sin, as Sodom, they declared, They have not hidden! Woe to their soul, For they have done to themselves evil. 10 Say ye to the righteous, that it is good, Because the fruit of their doings they eat. 11 Woe to the wicked–evil, Because the deed of his hand is done to him. 12My people–its exactors are sucklings, And women have ruled over it. My people–thy eulogists are causing to err, And the way of thy paths swallowed up. (Young’s Literal Translation)

      The Lord has a remnant on this Nation.They shall not bow down to Baal, and shall execute the will of God in whatever circumstances. IT IS WELL WITH THESE BUT NOT SO WITH THE WICKED.

  5. Church leaders gave the people of Kenya a direction and they thought otherwise just like in the bible when the Israelites asked for a king and were warned by samuel of the consequences but they didn’t listen..God didn’t twist their arm but they suffered the consequences later. The consequences of the Kenyan people’s choice is coming…..

  6. Out of Ignorance and malice the clergy is being Unfairly targeted.
    I am now coming to understand what Jesus meant with the statement that the road is narrow and few walk in it. This dawned on me after the referendum results. It also became clear that indeed those called will be less than 10% in Kenya rather than 80%.
    What is also quite clear is the level of ignorance as to how Sovereign God deals with humans. He will not force His will on people, and as in the scene of Cain and Abel, will even allow evil deeds to occur but give adequate warning. To assume that just because the majority passed the document despite warnings about its potential toxicity by the clergy, therefore the latter group should be ashamed is equating God to men. Some even said that God spoke through the Yes vote God”s Sovereign Word will not change bcause we’ve passed the constitution. What is evil will remain evil and innocent babies will be killed because the constitution says it’s ok. However, since the warning was given, just as in Cain’s situatin someone will bear the responsibility for the blood so shed and the curses that follow. There is still the Olive branch for those called by God’s name in that they can repent and pray that the promised amendments will be carried out.

  7. Out of Ignorance and malice the clergy is being Unfairly targeted.
    I am now coming to understand what Jesus meant with the statement that the road is narrow and few walk in it. This dawned on me after the referendum results. It also became clear that indeed those called will be less than 10% in Kenya rather than 80%.
    What is also quite clear is the level of ignorance as to how Sovereign God deals with humans. He will not force His will on people, and as in the scene of Cain and Abel, will even allow evil deeds to occur but give adequate warning. To assume that just because the majority passed the document despite warnings about its potential toxicity by the clergy, therefore the latter group should be ashamed is equating God to men. Some even said that God spoke through the Yes vote. God”s Sovereign Word will not change bcause we’ve passed the constitution. What is evil will remain evil and innocent babies will be killed because the constitution says it’s ok. However, since the warning was given, just as in Cain’s situatin someone will bear the responsibility for the blood so shed and the curses that follow. There is still the Olive branch for those called by God’s name in that they can repent and pray that the promised amendments will be carried out.

    • I agree the church is possibly a mere 10% of the population. Or is the remaining 70% a back sliden lot. Its time we woke up and realized that the bigger population is either atheistic or practicing other religions

      The road is narrower than we think

  8. Church leaders are NOT victims of any one they did their work as required of them. Their work was to warn people of issues in the documment which are against Bible teaching and they did, to heed or not was the work of listeners. Whether one respects them or not is not the issue but you bear testmony that they warned you. see what Heb. 13:17 says then do/say what you want with you pastor, but i beg ‘please leave this servants of God alone if you want to be established’.

  9. The question is not in what others think of the men of collar or the church but what they think of themselves. This is a litmus test for our faith.

  10. what we are experiencing now is what our Lord Jesus said of a perverse adulterous and rebellious generation,just as God told Samuel that they have not rejected you but me,the church leaders this time did acommendable job,like rahab was given a scalet to rise as a sign the church gave a red sign as warning to the nation of the consequences of passing of the draft.

  11. on the other side of the coin we must bear witness that the world cannot understand us and we should not make them understand because we are indiferent worlds all together as Apostle paul said even if we live in theis world we donot fight with worldly weapons,for its only men of God who interprete times and tell the nation what is to happen if we follow certain direction and not our political leaders as many want to put across that many christians have more faith to politicians than church lesders. The spiritual things are spiritually decerned and the canal man profiteth nothing for they are folly to them.The church gave warning of what they heard from the lord ang delivered to the nation and they have rejected it. The passing of the draft does not mean its a goood document and the church should continue to speak firmly.

  12. I think most respondents here are being overly pious. Allow me to say hypocritical.

    In my view is there nothing like a collective Church Stand. There cannot be God’s position in constitution making process.

    Kenya is not a theocracy reminiscent of the old nation of Israel. This is one thing that Kenyan Christians need to realise. Therefore we cannot have the clergy herding us like sheep to vote in a particular manner when it comes to choosing which way I should vote.

    In the New covenant, people are not judged collectively, but individually. So even if the people of Kenya were to endorse a law that permits choice especially on matters of abortion on demand (which we never did anyway), God will judge such persons individually. All these talk about calamities befalling us is scare-mongering to instill fear in people. A person is supposed to get save out of conviction and not because of fear.

    God is not partisan. He was neither with the NO nor the YES Camps. That is why all that chest-thumping by the NO camp as those who hold more holier ground than the people in the YES camp was never rewarded. They kept trumpeting their worth as children of God as if others are children of Satan. With full authority they prophesied in God’s name how they will win. Methinks their god is either a liar or they the prophets did not have God’s approval to indulge in politics and that whatever they were doing then and now is none spiritual. But swore falsely by the name of the living God using his word for political expediency.

    God further will not going to punish anyone for endorsing new constitution as some of you are implying above. Believing so is to display myopic raw fanaticism.

    My belief is that God is a Spirit and he must therefore be worshiped in spirit . Political engagement is not the calling for which the clergy were picked and neither is it part of spiritual worship of this God.

    We talk about abortion this abortion that without stopping to consider that even if the Constitution supported it, why do the clergy feel that we should legislate morals? What makes them think that even if we outlawed abortion it will wipe out the practice? Besides if there is increase in abortion, it is not because there are no laws to deal with it. The bible already talks about thou shalt not murder yet people abort day and night. Thous shalt lie yet we have lies emanating even from the very pulpits.

    Take for instance the miracles and the gibberish they call speaking in tongues! People are croaking cacophonous things that even God himself does not understand! Yet the book of acts is very clear on what speaking tongues mean. Such people do not understand the history of the early church and role of the Holy Spirit in aiding the apostles to speak and interpret the various languages wherever they went preaching the Gospel.

    What God did was to endow the Apostles with the ability to speak Kikuyu/Kamba/Giriams etc if ever they met one at the time. All these bababa rababa we here in the pulpit is rubbish/lies which deserves rebuke. Today everyone is speaking English and Kiswahili in Kenya. The only speaking in tongue that would glorify God today is when Mr. Bonke and none swahili speaking man comes in and by the Holy spirit begins to speak in fluent Kiswahili. I will say AMEN to that!

    Allow me take you back to Uhuru Park blast. None of the Miracle working clergy on that day healed a wound of the victims of the horror, instead they were calling for ambulances. Yet on TV they heal mysterious unseen ailments and eliminate demonic manifestations. Does it mean that this god they worship cannot heal fresh broken wounds or even resurrect people who are dead? This is how low our clergy are mocking GOD. I was laughing myself hoarse when I saw them back at Uhuru the next day interfering with crime scene in the name of cleansing. Who gave these people the idea of pouring some concoction they call oil everywhere? Isn’t that Idolatry coming back right into the church?

    We are told these days; take this leso and you bear child if you don’t have one; Take this salt, take this oil. Our focus is being slowly being withdrawn from God and placed in the small miracle gifts whose origins we don’t even know in the name of Miracles! Open your congregants. Christ warned us of false prophets countless times.

    The clergy have only themselves to blame for the hostility they are now receiving. They are unable to interpret the bible correctly and now they think they can interpret the constitution? Because of them we have people worshiping on different days and in different denominations. And they want us to believe that they are saying the same thing when we can see they are clearly divided.

    What makes us think that a clergy who is incapable of interpreting Exodus 20:8-11 correctly can get it right when it comes to Article 26(4) of the constitution?

    The clergy must re-examine themselves. They must revive the true church of Christ. Talking about a prophetic voice when we see no true prophets in them is vain talk. To such God says in Amos 5:23 “Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not hear the melody of thy viols.”

    That is exactly why God was not At Uhuru Park during blast and why he failed the Clergy again on 4th August 2010. If they don’t change God will be a loud absence from them. Their houses shall be left desolate unto them (Math 23:39) for their noise is a nuisance to the Living GOD.

  13. Yes, Church leaders are being victimized. But its not something out of the ordinary. It happens to most Christians frequently. Therefore, it shouldn’t be a big deal. You win some, you lose some, but the truth remains. God is still in control. The best way forward now is to stay positive and teach people so that those intending to take advantage of loopholes to sin have a change of heart.

    However, please note that there are many who voted either YES or NO but did it with good intention. We shouldn’t lose hope because God can use any among them to improve the situation. Don’t despair.

    About the opinion polls…….Regardless of the statistics involved in collecting data, opinion polls generally give a view of what most people feel. They cannot be ignored. If half the population ‘distrusts’ or ‘somewhat distrusts’ the clergy, then some effort should come from the clergy to change this perception.

    In my view, most people understood that clergy’s reluctance to support the draft because of the contentious clauses. However, many were unprepared for the statements made by some church leaders during the campaigns. For instance, at a rally, a renowned preacher used very rough words in telling off Obama for getting involved in the campaigns. While he was justified in protesting, the way he said wouldn’t be expected of a Christian.

    In another situation, at a press conference a Church leader said they would use tithes and offerings in the campaigns. He added, ‘And we know Kenyans give a lot’. While we shouldn’t don’t care whether he used the tithes or offerings to campaign, the fact that he had to say it aloud media smacks of arrogance which most people have not seen in the clergy before.

    These situations and many more tarnished the image of the church. In my view its such scenarios that have brought about the ‘distrust’.

    Still, I feel Christians can reach out to the population by doing good, preaching the gospel and living exemplary moral lifestyles. Church is what we do and the way we live after Sunday.

  14. My take on this subject is that every Kenyan had a right to express their opinion and some being leaders had a greater mandate to enlighten their followers.

    Specifically the Church leaders had a spiritual mandate in sounding a trumpet as befits a watchman. I may not have followed each and every rally to know much of the words spoken but I congratulate our church leaders for stsnding up to be counted even amidst threats. Lets remember that the truth is never popular and lets also remember that facts are not truths.

    The firm foundation of God stands forever and its only time that shall prove who spoke the truth.

    For now I urge the church to forge a head knowing that the times of the end are at hand and that as truly spoken by our LORD Jesus if the days are not shortened none may be saved for evil shall abound.

    Lets walk tall and let no devil intimidate us. If the world rejected the LORD Jesus what more should we expect from the World. The Lord knows how to deliver HiS own

  15. There is nothing like being victimised. The clergy had crossed the line. There is no problem in telling the people of what is contetious in the constitution, but they went ahead and threatened that whoever would vote for yes should not attend their churches. So you can see the churches are no longer God’s but theirs.

    On the other hand so many church members are living in sin. Adultry, fornication,Lusts of every kind yet they don’t condemn these acts because thety are afraid the congragates will leave there churches.

    Jesus christ stood for peace he even withheld himself to the point of death, the apostles likewise died violent deaths because they used to talk the truth. The gospel has not changed even an iota. in the book of ezekiel we are told that the soul that sins shall die. It doesn’t matter whether we are in the times of the new testament, that is the truth. We are to preach the gospel in it’s truth and not half truths.

    It doesn’t matter which constitution is in place. The clergy are supposed to preach about sin and it’s consequences. These days you go to churches and you are told that you are bewitched. Now how can we differentiate the clergy from the witchdoctors. The Bible clearly says that the wages of sin is death. We should not try to please people for the sake of enriching yourself. Jesus said that you have your reward and it is coming soon.

  16. Crossroads, I’m truly surprised that you even pose this question. If we have lost faith in a segment of our Church leadership it is because of the manner in which they conducted themselves and NOT the position they took.

    E.G. we repeatedly warned the Church to watch the company they were keeping. They could and should have run their NO campaign respectably without sharing podiums with some very dubious characters. They lost my vote the day I watched a press conference where a certain politician having been legally summoned over statements made about a certain community defended his right to spout hate under the freedom of expression principle. HOW?! He wasnt even disputing having made the statements, how could he, there are tapes of him say them. His defence was that other politicians are also inciteful and since they havent been touched, he too should go scot free. Surely! And right beside him as he “defended” his right to incite fear and hate was none other than Canon.

    I could hardly believe my ears when I heard one Bishop (who has also been revealed to have stolen an election) claiming that the document would require people to pay taxes on their dogs. An outright lie.

    The No side of the Church compromised BIG time in the manner in which they conducted themselves. It should not surprise you that we no longer trust that God speaks through this set of Church leaders.

    • Mimi.. I’ld say the church leaders did not do their homework well enough so like small kids in a debate club they did not have facts to present. The church leaders have become so mixed up with politics that they will dine with the heathens, they used the WRONG people to pass the word to their congregations (we all know how this very politicians performed after the 2007 elections). The question really should be “Have the Church leaders brought on victimisation on themselves”. and how do they protect themselves from lossing focus of the right direction

      All the same I say If it is so hard for us to follow the written word of God how do we listen to our church leaders

  17. Our leaders did their best and those who did are still doing their best following the contentious issues, unfortunatley they did not have their facts right, how I wish they contacted the right sources of NO than read a constitution and try to interprete it like they do the Bible. As it were they tried to correct thier mistakes of 2007 but this time we let them down and followed the very people who will not keep their campaign “promises”; already they r saying there are no issues to change, why did you give into their wishes yet they will not give into our wishes???? I voted NO and will do it again if given the chance

    • Once you make a mistake there no way you can be able to rectify it. The fact is the church let us down in 2007 period. The only way they can do the work God wants is to preach peace among people but how many church leaders are preaching that?. Instead they are engrossed in politics and politics alone. The God we are serving is an Almighty GOD and if we ask Him anything on this earth HE will do if it is according to His will. God can change the destiny of a country. Our priority is not in engaging ourslves in politics but in praying for our country. Lets not loose our calling because of the things of this world. God wanted it to be that way because the Church leaders given another chance will always let us down. The bible says that Cursed is he who trusts in man. Let us trust in God by giving Him the Praise He deserves. I’am not against any church leaders but when they start loosing focus they should be checked. The Kadhi Courts and the clause on the said abortion i personally don’t see any wrong in those clauses so why should we change anything and yet we have not even started using the constitution?. Let them tell us the truth that they want to bring their credibility but the more they fight the more they will loose credibility. Let the constitution be because if you fight it there is a possibility that you are fighting God. God has the power to fight for Himself.

  18. I feel I have to say my piece because this question begs an answer. I just saw on CBN a report of christians who were shot in Pakistan for prostelyzing after giving their lives for many years ministering to the felt needs of the people there and a question was posed on whether christians should stop ministering in that country because of what had happened. Many of the people responded with compassion on the people and said they could not give up on them regardless of the danger of loosing their lives. None of the family and friends were bitter or cursing. Then I opened my mail and saw this question. I wonder if the church in Kenya can suffer for christ as others in china, Russia and those in Islamic nations have done. I come to the conclusion that the church does not understand the God she purpotes to serve. The government as whole has ignored the church.

    When someone says they will not shake the hands of a pastor again it is because they feel extremely let down by the church. When Jesus read the scroll the words go like this; “The spirit of the Lord is upon me because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor……”.There is a scripture which says “true religion is to share your bread with the poor….” another says ” Is this not the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bonds of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free,…” . There are people who have been totally oppressed because of the old constitution and they felt it was only God who could lift the oppression because the government practised impunity. They had all along believed that since the church belongs to God it would empathize with her suffering and they could easily identify with preachers like Njoya, the late Muge and Okullu and ilk who would rebuke the executive for its impunity. It therefore came as a complete shock to these people that the church could not acknowledge the great gains in governance that this new constitution represented and was busy trashing what they were seeing as a way out of the great oppression which they had all along felt powerless to tackle. They were wondered ‘Cant the church find a way of handling the moral issues without throwing away the document?’ The church approached the issue of constitution without sensitivity and wisdom and that is why many people are lashing out at it.

    A christianity which is indifferent to the felt needs of the people becomes irrelevant. To make matters worse, most of these preachers way of dealing with the oppression is to ask the oppressed to give so that they can get their deliverance. Meantime the preachers move houses from the slums to Runda and from walking on foot to driving fuel guzzling cars complete with body guards. Then they add insult to injury by telling these people that if they choose freedom from oppression over the status quo then they have rejected God. Common sense can tell you that it is a tall order that people could ever reach a compromise on the constitution. Abortion is being practised in the old constitution and people are loosing lives because of the crude way it is being done. The government is not asking people to abort, on the contrary she is saying “Abortion is not permitted”, but she is saying ” If the preachers have not done their job of showing you the dangers of abortion to dissuade people from procuring one, then I am going to do my God given responsibility of taking care of your life by availing medical care to ensure you dont die in the process”. The church’s responsibility is to impart moral standards to the nation. The governments responsiblity is to provide a conducive environment for citizens to be productive. Church should wake up to her responsibility instead of cursing the nation. If more time was spent teaching the nation the standards of God than the sowing, reaping, healing, miracle, gospel then there would be nobody taking the Governments option or the nation being taken over by muslims.

    Life issues are not black and white and christians should not have a tunnel vision or they’ll drive themselves to irrelevance. Keeping of the law without compassion made Jesus very hard on the pharisees and Sadducees.

  19. To all the church leaders who through God’s wisdom gave their position on the new set of laws; Have peace within you for you did what you have been called to do. To those who find happiness in victimising the servants of God, the choice is yours. Let those who have ears hear!

  20. Leadership is defined as ‘an interpersonal relationship in which the leader employs specific behavior and strategies to influence individuals and groups towards setting goals and attaining them in specific situations’ (Sulivan & Decker, 1992). It requires relationships between people who are to be led (followers) and the person who is leading (leader) within a specific setting. As such, church leaders should be judged as having been good or bad leaders, and not being victimized. Inherent in a leader are traits such as decisiveness, Integrity, Non-conformity, Acceptance of consequences and actions, and Emotional commitment to values and beliefs
    (to name but a few).

    My opinion therefore is to allow church leaders to be real leaders through education, training and life experiences. In any case, followers take responsibility for following certain leaders, NOT the vice-versa. We killed each other in 2008 because we followed certain leaders, and we should take (have taken) responsibility! Doesn’t God’s word ask us to ‘CHOOSE TODAY WHOM WE SHOULD SERVE AND FOLLOW’?

  21. No, and church leaders in Kenya need to get over themselves and gain some understanding on what it really means to be a godly leader. To be a Christian leader is not a popularity contest (not where I hail from, anyway). Instead it is a life filled with standing up for the truth and striving to graciously accept the price for having done so.

    There is simply too much wanting to have ones cake and eating it too!

    As I stated, church leaders in Kenya need to get over themselves and gain some understanding on what it really means to be a godly leader. Until they do…

  22. MAIKO and your ilk

    Please stop cheating the church leaders that they stood for God or even stood for any truth.

    They did not, my friend. God never loses a battle. They (clergy) delved outside their spiritual mandate

    In fact the clergy who were in the NO camp should count themselves lucky to be living in our time.

    Were they dwelling in the Mosaic era, they would have been stoned to death for issuing enthusiastic and emphatic victory prophecies that never materialized at all. 5th August would have been their last day on earth.

    It is a shame that you are still asking them to perpetuate spiritual impunity by keeping their ‘inner peace’ (whatever that means) even after it is evident that God allowed them to be humiliated.

    They should be doing some thorough soul searching. They should not even take pride in the fact that they had 2.7 million supporters who would have perished with them in the Mosaic days. Satan has more than that number.

    MAIKO please!

    I know you have your opinion, but please relate it to sound biblical teachings.

    Your advise to the clergy is wrong.

  23. well, i think the church, or the church leadership for that matter has not conducted itself in a blameless manner as required of us by the holy scriptures.

    what has been gradually happeing in the church in kenya is that it has been expanding widely but shallowly.

    as christians we have not been called upon to compete with politicians or try to take their place as advocated by the likes of margret wanjiru, mutava musyimi or those who have ventured from the pulpit to politics. Jesus did not tell us to do that but we are to teach people the word of God and nothing more. the word of God by the power of the Holy spirit is meant to change people’s hearts, politicians included, to fear God.

    another sin the church has committed and lost credibility on the way is the focus on money and more money and material wealth rather than spiritual wealth.

    this is why the church in kenya owns material properties all over but it is spiritually poor.

    pastors and bishops love money, properties and titles more than they love God. as a result the love of wealth separates them from God since with it pride also comes along.

    remember the old testament patriachs are mentioned so that we can learn lessons from them but not emulate them. but some pastors use king david as an example yet Jesus is greater than David.

    remember we are christians and not jews. we are to follow Christ and not Moses, Abraham or even Paul. actually paul rebuked those who attempted to put him in a pedestal and claimed they were followng him. It is Jesus who saved us and it to him that we should focus our attention.

    so money has overshadowed everything in the church where pastors say you cannot preach the word of God without money. is this statement biblical? personally i find it an excuse not to sacrifice ourselves in following God. Jesus said whoever loves him should be ready to take up his cross and follow him. we nolonger have self denial in the church for God.

    i finally say that the church should repent and return back to God.

    God is watching us.

  24. further after reading the bible on my own i have come to the conclusion that tithe or tithing that is preached extensively in the church today, and used to create a sense of guilty among those who want to enter the kingdom of heaven, is not a christian principle.

    tithing is not a christian principle. those in judaism may find it mandatory but for christians this should not be the case.

    Jesus could not die on the cross for our sins and then turn around and demand that we must pay tithe so as to enter the Kingdom of God.

    JESUS PAID IT ALL

  25. Church leaders must be included in the implementation of the constitution. God works with the minority and not majority and His word will never return to him in vain.Those who are critisizing the church and the leadership should be careful because the Bible says don’t touch the annointed one. If there are great people in this world are the ministers of the gospel.They stand before God and many things are revealed to them. Again every kenyan had a right to vote yes or no since this is a democratic nation.

    • ELIZABETH

      You need to put aside that religiosity and start looking at things as they are.

      GOD indeed on many occasion has proven that HE works with the minority and when He does for sure, the results are very loud for everyone to see. HIS word will no doubt never return to him in vain, but using HIS name in vain is vain worship (Ex:20:7).

      That is why the prophecies from the Pulpits failed. A clear indication that GOD was never with these arrogant clergymen and women. It is an indication that the victory they wanted was not for the glory of GOD but for their own.

      GOD is no respecter of such persons.

      I have also noted how you are trying to instill fear in us by telling us not to rebuke the clergy. Did you know that people like Martin Luther had the courage to question the Papal hegemony of yore. Luther stood by the bible which the Popes had denied the laymen to read. In the end he triumphed by bringing about religious reformation.

      I say the bible and the bible alone is our counsel. We all stand before God when we pray. We do not need any other mediator other than Christ. Our clergy are just vessels. They are not greater than any of us. The manifestation of the Holy Spirit is not monopoly reserved only for the clergy but anyone who hears the voice of Christ knocking and opens. Through such people GOD can make his revelations too.

      Lastly you have said that every Kenyan had the right to vote NO or YES. I concur. But it is the thought of herding us to vote whimsically to please our clergy that did no auger well with us. The clergy had his own voter card and I had mine. His was simple vote as he pleases and not coerce anyone to vote as s/he pleases.

      We cannot legislate morals. If the clergy has failed to tame immorality in the church, what made them think that it can be done by use of laws.

      GOD is democratic and that is why Satan is having a field day. The clergy must also let us have our say.

  26. “Again every kenyan had a right to vote yes or no since this is a democratic nation.”

    Unlike many, I cannot say that it was wrong for anyone to vote “No”. I believe it is much more important that people vote their conscience (for the RIGHT reason) rather than mindlessly become a part of “the collective.” Having read the part of your constitution which was causing problems for church leaders, I gained some understanding of where their concerns laid and share some of their concerns.

    As for this,

    “Those who are critisizing the church and the leadership should be careful because the Bible says don’t touch the annointed one.”

    You are correct, Elizabeth, in cautioning people to be careful. However, it is my belief that this principle is TOTALLY OVERWORKED here in Kenya.

    In accepting the WHOLE of scripture (such as “open rebuke is better than hidden love” – a verse which exhorts us to do the very thing many in church leadership DON’T want people to do here) it is obvious that godly criticism (both from the Old and New Testement) can be an act of love and that each of us is called (in the N.T.) to NOT think more highly of ourselves as we should.

    A person who does comes to the understanding that, rather than fight off criticism/comments, they would do best to measure them against the reality of how they are living.

    Those who don’t (not implying you at all – truly!) teach scripture out of context. But in the end?

    No one in the Kingdom of God (leaders and servants alike) is ABOVE godly correction.

    (Back on topic)… Are church leaders being victimized for their stand?

    Not in my opinion.

  27. I believe the church leaders only came out to condemn the kadhis court out of our gvt to avoid fight btn xtians and muslims


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