Posted by: Family Media | August 17, 2010

Should Church leaders be included in the Implementation committee of the constitution?

It has been a long journey towards achieving a new constitution, a lot has been sacrificed, lives have been lost, businesses burnt down and people displaced. It has been a journey that has seen the government involve a number of stakeholders from foreign embassies to private sector and religious groups.

With the passing of the draft constitution, during the August 4th referendum, church leaders have been ‘victimised’ by some of their members. Be it as it may, the document passed and is now at critical stage of implementation. So the question begs, should church leaders be included in the implementation committee?

Advertisements

Responses

  1. Every Kenyan- from all walks of life – have a responsibility to be involved in the implementation of the new constitution. However the various committees/commissions that will be established to spearhead the process have criteria for appointment – and I am sure non has a criteria for ” religious leader”. As a country let us move forward in the this debate and appoint people based on their ability to meet the criteria for appointments.
    Muthiora Mwathi

  2. church leaders sholud be involved in the draft implementation commitee.this is because they are also citizens and the constitution will affect them.the fact that they caqmpaigned against the draft should not be the reason why they should be victmised as it was their right to do so.after all we do not know who the 2 million people who voted against the draft are.they are kenyans.they need to be heard.please

  3. I am reminded of the Children of Israel when they demanded that they wanted a King like any other Nations of the world God gave them one of their own named SAUL if you read the whole story, and if are a follower and a believer in God then you call it a day. It will not be wise for Church to implement what you already said it has some areas needed to be removed. The reason why the Church looks as if is on the receiving end is this inconsistance style of Leadership. If they did not listen to you when it was still in the making what value are going to add on it at the implementation time. Should I use the same words of St. Paul who has bewitched the Church of Christ in Kenya? The bible is very clear on this let your yes be yes and your no be no. The fact that I am a kenyan does not mean that I must be in the implementing Committees for me to be served or be ruined by the said constitution. Last time we lost lives because of stolen Presidantial Votes but the Church was Quick to ligitimise the current Leadership. When does a sinner become padoned is it when there is repentance or when they insist that they donnot see anything wrong in what they have done? Oh Children of the Most High God do not conform to the pattern of this world. I am not for that because God is counting on me whether I am alone or not.

  4. Yes, We as Church leaders Must be involved in the draft implementation committee.

    This is because we are Kenya Citizens and the Kenya Constitution is not for Politicians but for all Kenyans and so it affects us alot.

    We Vigorously Prayed against the Kadhi Courts & the Abortion clauses inclusion on the Draft and the Passing of it but our Church Members ignored and betrayed us completely and thus the outcome.
    Victimization is not our Portion because campaigning against was our Constitutional Rights like every other Kenyan.

    So kindly assist us be included in the Process to correct what we can from inside.
    God bless you.
    Kingdom Blessings,
    Bishop Jonathan Mbithi.
    email:bishopjoea@yahoo.com
    Tel+254 722 772 841.
    Nairobi,
    kenya.

    • Bishop

      Can you really be trusted to implement something that you vehemently opposed, really?

      How do we expect you to treat the issue of Kadhis’ courts? What about article the entire 26, which most you clergymen misinterpreted?

      Bishop you and your fellow clergy cannot continue to keep the country in a referendum mood. The New Katiba is not static and that is why it provides for provides for amendments. It is only proper that you and your group wait for the full implementation before asking for amendments. No one can stand on your way if you needed amendments. But the fact you are bent on achieving your end even before implementations, is the sole reason we are saying you cannot be trusted with implementation of the Katiba.

      I have heard your fellow clergy say that Raila and Kibaki promised amendments. This is a clear indication that neither you nor your friends read the Katiba conclusively and that your opposition to the document was based on hearsay.

      Kibaki and Raila have no such powers under the new Katiba to do any such thing. And even if they promised changes the time frame for everything has been set in the schedule of implementation

      Lastly, one thing you must know Bishop is that, when it comes to agreements in form of Katibas worldwide there is nothing like a hardline stand, but irreducible minimums. Kadhis Courts is one such issue. You probably will spend the rest of your life unsuccessfully advocating for its removal.

      You may succeed on article 26 but I foresee a scenario where we may end up getting rid of the article all-together. But all in all I think it is unfortunate that you ‘Christians’ want to use your religion as basis upon which we must write our constitution yet the document is supposed to be secular. You people want to have your cake and gobble it too!

      Have you stopped to think for one minute that there are those people who do not subscribes to the tenets of your ‘Christianity’ and rather prefers a more pro-choice constitution. To such people Article 26 as it is today is rigid and uncompromising. There are those who for instance may prefer euthanasia to relieve their vegetative kin of their pains, but the katiba does not permit that.

      If you want to be included in the implementation team then I think you are going to have to drop your amendment stand and wait for the right time. We want to move forward. It is important that you do not thwart our journey with your religion.

    • Bishop, With all due respect, I wish to agree and dis agree with you on some points you have thus brought forth.

      First just as you have said that you had a constitutional right to say NO to the draft, so did the members of the congregation. There was no betrayal of any kind. Like every other Kenyan they made the choice after reading and even some praying and observing what was right for them.

      I was on a couple of days looking at the 2007 bill on the labor rights and how it was drafted. The process of making it to be law was long and rigorous. In this I see logic in the inclusion of the clergy and lay men in the implementation process of this new law. Even with the issue of the abortions and the Kadhi courts.

      In this the law will clearly expound on the reasons and qualifications of the medical practitioner. As for the Kadhi’s courts, I agree that they ought not to be a part of the constitution. The Muslims in this nation are more than the Hindus who never had anything concerning the protection of their rights as a minority. It is to be understood that the Kenyan laws are largely humanistic in nature and do not or rarely qualify as Christian. Even so, We should look to History as it repeats itself in our midst.

      The current construction of the Cordoba mosque in the vicinity of ground zero is a clear marker of the intention of Islam to be a world ruler. Cordoba fell from the Islam to the King of Spain and the 2004 train bombings of Spain by Al Qaeda was as a result of this take over centuries ago. The transference of name Cordoba to New York is symbolic even though Islam would try and say that it is a gesture of Peace. Islam doesn’t tolerate any other religion and institutionalizing it in our constitution is a mistake to be dealt with. When or if we will succeed in taking the kadhi’s courts from the constitution will only be calling for more trouble. on ourselves.

      So as the clergy seek to be included in the implementation of the new law, they ought to come in willing to play ball fairly. It won’t be a time to try and push again for the removal of the clauses but how can they (the laws) properly serve the citizens of this nation.

      Your sentiments sir of them versus us is off-the-cuff because it puts you and the people on a different ranges… I pray that as the clergy come into this they shall come in the humility of Nehemiah as he went to build the walls of Jerusalem. God has a plan for this nation.

  5. No one should point a finger at the Leadership of The Church of Christ even when your opinion about them suggest they’re wrong. From history, multitudes oppose what God is saying, and what was meant for their good. Don’t be found opposing your Creator by so doing……He is their Judge, be wise for your own good.
    They should be included in the draft implementation commitee.

  6. When the children of Israel sinned against God by demanding for a King, Samuel was very hurt and warned them of the consequences of their choice. They however insisted on their way and God told Samuel to let them have their way. Samuel even helped them by anointing two Kings for them. Samuel actually came to like Saul and was grieved when he could not obey God and God had to reject him. Samuel after this incidence told the children of Israel; “…God forbid that I should sin against God in ceasing to pray for you: but I will teach you the good and the right way….”.
    The church has a responsibility of praying for the nation inspite of their choice. The instructions of Paul to timothy in 1 Tim 2: 1 & 2 is still true today more than ever, “….first of all supplications, prayers…..be made for all men. For Kings, and all that are authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life….”
    Prayer for the implementation should be the main focus. The church should not make demands of inclusivity to the implementation. The church by her own conduct would invite inclusiveness just like Samuel did but we have to admit that our combativeness has put people off.

  7. Church leaders in Kenya “claim” to follow christ. Do they know that Christ was never involved in politics as he said AM NOT OF THIS WORLD. OUR CHURCH LEADERS ARE MORE OF THIS WORLD THAN THE POLITICIANS. SHAME ON THEM! THEY ARE WOLVES IN A SHEEPS SKIN. THEY SHOULD COPY DR. PROPHET OWUOR. GIVE TO GOD WHAT BELONGS TO GOD.

  8. Yes they should. However they should bear in mind that our country is of diverse religions and the Christian church in Kenya should be in the forefront of praying for this nation and not turning into politicians. It was so embarrassing watching some of them during the no rallies. We live in the real world and real things happen, the church should focus more on teaching christian values than trying to oppose the world!

  9. Never ! They should instead be repenting and healing the wounds of the laity.Why do i say this?They used to advertise for Mega Prayer Rallies which ,to annoyance of many,were blatantly turned into Campaign Rallies where propaganda,half-truths and lies were spewed out.This obviously left many disillusioned and deeply hurt.And in that style they vigorously campaigned against the then Draft Constitution.I cant remember any of them highlighting on the positive areas of the document.They portrayed the document as flawed and bogus.Sincerely how can they be involved in its implementation?I do urge them to now concentrate in their calling.Let us see them come together as they did during the campaigns,to preach the Gospel,cast out demons,heal the sick,raise the dead etc.Brethren let us ponder over this:God is never defeated.Every time He led the children of Israel to go to battle they were NEVER DEFEATED.Who led the Clerics into the NO campaigns?.Lastly let God forgive them and sent revival over the backslidden church Amen and Amen.

  10. Not they should not be involved, they goofed by being in the NO and they should not goof again. Give Ceasar what belogs to Ceassr and Give God what belongs to God. We have a much higher calling than the constitution.

  11. The Church was not necessarily campaigning against the whole draft. Of Course there are parts of the draft that are so good. The reason why the Church campaigned against the draft was because they were ignored by the committee of experts when they raised the contetious issues(Kadhi’s courts and abortion clauses) The cry of the church was to have the contetiuos issues worked on before voting for the draft. In other words if the church was to vote between the draft that was voted for and one which was similar but without the contentious clauses, the church would have comfortably voted YES for the latter. My point is this the church should be involved in the implementation process but they must hold their position with regard to the Kadhi’s court and the abortion clauses.

  12. Yes the church leaders should be given an opportunity to be there because whether we like it or not, God is still the head of the universe and he uses these church leaders in various ways.
    Having godly counsel in everything in life its very important, it is not the church leaders who failed Kenyan when the NO team was defeated, but Kenyans made a choice…this reminds me of the word of God in 1sam when the children of Israel wanted a King, and Samuel cried to the Lord…and the Lord said it is not you who they have rejected, but they have rejected me…”
    For us who are calling every name to the church leaders, lets be careful that one day the words of our mouth will not harm us. They are servants of God lets respect them. Instead of spending so much time complaining, why dont we pray for them that when they are involved in the constitution implementation thats Gods wisdom is going to reign upon them and they will obediently do what our dad is saying.
    Kenyans, tuendelee kuomba…the battle has just began.

  13. I wish to add my voice to the proponents of church leaders being allowed in the implementation.My advise is that we should Stop victimising the church.It was very obvious the “Yes”vote would go through. Bible tells it all.”Narrow is the road that leads to heaven and few are they that enter therein”.God allowed the “yes”vote to go through, not because He approvedless of those who voted No on account of the abortion/kadhi court clauses. God is very wise in allowing things to go the way they did. One very clear truth is that had the “No”vote gone through, there would not have been peace.Remember we have been praying for peace. The percentage of true Christians in Kenya is very minimal and their vote could not have gone through. Very few people are against abortion/ Kadhi courts, and a very small percentage(less than 2 million) are true Christians.If you voted “No”, you are not a sinner, that was your Godly conviction, and God honors it. There is a place for you in God’s heart.He knows you hate shedding of innocent blood. If you voted “Yes”, you followed your heart, your loyalty was that way and i believe God honors your stand and knows where he has placed you too. I believe the Christians (Not all who voted “NO”were Christians by the way) could have voted “Yes”, had the contentious clauses been looked into and resolved, because the whole constitution apart from the two clauses was good. It was only seen to be flawed in line with the word of God.The Christians had to vote the way they did because they were led that way by God.They did not have to win in their “No” vote to be applauded by the world but they did so in obedience to the Almighty God who judges sin and punishes accordingly.Remember scriptures says that “judgment begins in the house of God” so the true church had to vote accordingly to avert judgement in God’s house. Its better as the church, to be on the side of God, setting a good example than to seek to please man.God in His wisdom knows the end of every man and He knows where he will place the Church. It is better to be on God’s side than to be on the world’s side. What would Jesus Christ have done?(WWJD)Its not a matter of “give caesar what belongs to Caesar and to God what belongs to him”. The Constitution without the two clauses is beautiful and thats not what was rejected by the church passe. Its open truth that the church rejected the two clauses only on biblical grounds and hoped this would be resolved.LET NOT ANYONE REVILE THE CHURCH AND ITS LEADERS!!!!!. ITS AGAINST GOD TO DO THAT. OUR PARENTS MAKE MISTAKES, BUT DO WE REVILE THEM, HUMILIATE THEM? SHAME THEM?
    I would like to warn christians who know the bible about touching the anointed one of God. The word is very clear on that. Stop calling the true church leaders names, God has allowed the Constitution to go through, and we thank Him for that, but He is not going to STOP at that. He will judge those who continue to criticise the church leaders. Sciptures says: “Touch not my anointed one and do my prophet no harm”. We have many examples of people in the Bible who reviled and humiliated servants of God calling them names, pointing accusing fingers at them and what happened to them?.Remember Moses and Aaron & Miriam?A servant of God may be wrong or not upto your liking , but please dare you not criticise, lest you fall into God’s Hands for his wrath is worse than that of Man. Adding to church leaders, let us concentrate more on what God expects of us, As true believers of Christ,Lets not be unequally yoked with others because we know whom we have believed in and “He who is in us(Jesus Christ) is greater than he who is in the world(satan)”. Remember Romans 8:28 “All things work together for good to them that love the LORD and to them that are the called according to his purposes.” In everything give thanks for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning us”. Lets Preach peace after the referandum and lets not look at NO and Yes. Lets now work together hand in hand to build our beloved nation. There has to be unity. Its the same church that prays for the nation and so it must be included in the implementation of the constitution whether it said No or Yes.If we reject the Church , we reject God.Whoever rejects God is cursed. We are all in Kenya and are Kenyans. Voting No does not make you a foreigner. Do not JUDGE the Church. Its only God to judge anyone according to His word.Lets now talk less and join in our nation building.Lets Pray for those in authority in the land, ALL.GOD BLESS KENYA.GOD BLESS THE READER.

  14. Joseph found favour with Pharaouh who was then the president of Egypt. But Joseph was never in the constitution of Egypt. When that president died Joseph was no lnger recognised in Egypt but instead, him and his people were tortured, made slaves… everyone knows the story. But if Joseph was in the constitution of Egypt or whatever law governed Egypt by then, then it would be well with him and his people no matter which president came to power. Even in kenya the present leaders will soon go and other leaders will come into power who will go and rule by the constitution. Only then will the people of Kenya realise what they did on 4 August 2010. We all know what happens when the government of a certain nation starts fighting with the church. Please listen to the church when time and Gods Mercy are available. It looks like the church has lost but it has not. At the end of the day the power of God must rule especially here in Kenya where many are christians. Whether the church is included or excluded from the implementation of the new law at the end of it all Our GOD who is mighty, who is never quick, never slow and who never fails but He comes at the right time of His own must speak and reveal his powers. How He will do it, we dont know. Let the church be quiet and wait upon the Lord. ( Since I was young i have never seen anyone who truely trusts in God put into shame). Why hurry to things. Wait!!!!!!

  15. 1corin 6…Paul addresses these issue very well by letting the believers know they are over and above all the wisdom of this world. The constitution of every one who has believed in the name of Jesus should be the Word of God. Anything else written by experts of this world should never be an issue to them that believe for Jesus gave us all authority. Therefore what the constitution of the land says a christian have ALL AUTHORITY. By church leaders opposing or supporting the constitution they are belittling the greatness of God and his protection in all circumstances. They also have dragged his name in matters that are worldly. They have clearly shown that their faith in God is not in the heart where God has written his law to those who are really in the sheep pen of the Good sepherd. Our warfare is against spiritual principalities……… Have they put the whole armour? Listened to the voice of the Holy Spirit of the living God ?….Have they become wolves …to the sheep by involving and dragging the sheep into sin.? If we have true church leaders ordained by the spirit of God they should not sit to discuss things of this world…….for if any man is in christ he is a new creation living by spiritual principals.

  16. I had thought of abstaining to comment in this site because the more things change,the more they remain the same.The windmill goes round and round,and,so,you can expect it to come around again;nothing new.Bashing and rejoinders..it is not bad but it is not ok.
    Again I did not intend to write about anything new myself,the reason being that I laboured in pre-referendum windmill on what the yes would mean to the kenyan church and society,and so was the No.It was a long analysis and it came to pass.
    The only pain I have is that those of us who are junior in church were really bullied into No campaigns against our wisdom and schooling.The difficulty part was in convincing our urban folk what exactly we meant that abortion is permissive.It was easier to show why kadhis courts should not have been included.Personally I have never liked the idea of including the religious courts in constitution,ever.But here we are.The counsel that our seniors refused is now the humble pie.We had suggested to give leeway to our christians so long as they stood guided,to vote anyway how,and they were not to be villified.
    Whichever way, that gives me satisfaction because our christians are now of age.They can know when their leaders have vested interests,and when they are sincere but ignorant.That is a power in church.It will come in handy to refuse vices that I had predicted in this blog again when I tackled the theme of intolerance.If you are new in the blog,I had written that,we should not rejoice wholeheartedly as we fight abortion merchants because after that,the worrior in us will ask “who is next?”That is usually what happens when people compete with some degree of arrogance.I had even suggested that after christians are through with kadhis courts,they may likely come into interdenominational supremacy[watch this space]of asking who is stronger among the catholics and protestants and evangelicals.Who is able to call shots here?This is simple social science.We have to be careful how we mix church and society so that we remain salt of the earth.At no time should the church shy away from pointing out sins from without,but more so from within.The problem that time round was religious supremacy but members of the church did not like the idea.They had known well that indeed we have what we share by and large even with muslims.I remember saying,if nothing else,then we share poverty and disease at least.Other things like religious supremacy can come later,and so are ammendments.I want to be involved in them as well.
    Now that we are on the other side of referendum,we should not waste our thoughts on asking who was on right or wrong,who was right or left.In fact in a mature society no one should be told shame on.In my opinion those who opposed the katiba should as well be involved in its implementation.We cant afford to grow backwards.

  17. Yes.. They should b included, for those interested.. They have a right2 own opinion! Nevertheless, the referendum outcome is a lesson2 all, leaders clergy n leity ie Kenyans can read n interprete, or even read btwn the lines and weigh advice from all quaters.. I previously wrote about matt 13:24 onwards ?when men slept..’ That sleep’s historical.. Resulted2 somewhere down the line with an Ishmael with his promises, and an Isaac with his too.. And above all, God watching His word to confirm it. Lets propagate our Christian Faith without zeroing too much on Ismael decendants. We have our objective of Great commission, they have their own with passion.. We can’t change history overnight.. I am not pro kadhi but pro Christ… But I know the constitution should not just be spiritualized or ‘religiosized’.. But even so, there are other better issues to affect generations.. On governance, economy, wealth distribution, education etc which influences the church today n even future.. Keeping the constitution aside, place the bible I believe in as the infallible word of God between two or more christians, and we’d differ over an interpretation, revelation etc.. How much more would we differ over an earthly constitution? I stated that leaders should come together more passionately over the Christ’s agenda rather than getting mixed up over a .. Is it kind of doctrine introduced along our way like Balaam’s?
    Its a Yes .. And life continues..after all, who’s so certain which side God was, to dare raise an accusing finger on decision made, whether yes or no?
    Its high time we spoke positively and prophesying into the future..not with doom, but hope and divine placement of constitution on heavenly maker’s hands.. He’ll make things work together4 good if we trust in Him. He’s more concerned with the church than you and me.

    Lets be at peace with Him and stop blame game over opinion reached. Somebody asked what Jesus would’ve done (WWJD) between a Yes or No? May be, just maybe He’d have asked for a coin.. And say render unto ceasar the things that are ceaser’s, and to God ,the things unto Him.

  18. Madam Betty

    Pardon me, but where on earth is this church of Christ you are talking about.

    It is the

    1.Catholic Church
    2.Pentecostal Church
    3.SDA
    4.Presbyterian
    5.Rival this or Rival that
    6.Redeemed this or Redeemed that
    7.Akorino
    8.Roho Israel
    9.Dini ya Msambwa
    10. Jesus Celebration this or that
    11. Helicopter
    13. Neno this or that
    14. Deliverance this or that
    15. Embassy this or that
    16. Winners Chapels
    17. Faith this or that

    !!??

    Where is the church or Christ here?

    Which one is God even listening to?

    There is one thing that I always. The church is dead!

    We will only see the church of Christ when the spirit of true Revival shall awaken. The above is merely a cacophony of denominations.

    The first and foremost test they fail in the bible is their disobedience to the Fourth Commandment in the bible, which basically makes them vain worshipers just as God says in Amos 5:23

  19. “Study universal holiness of life. Your whole usefulness depends on this, for your sermons last but an hour or two; your life preaches all the week. If Satan can only make a covetous minister a lover of praise, of pleasure, of good eating, he has ruined your ministry. Give yourself to prayer, and get your texts, your thoughts, your words from God. Luther spent his best three hours in prayer.”
    — Robert Murray McCheyne

    The character as well as the fortunes of the gospel is committed to the preacher. He makes or mars the message from God to man. The preacher is the golden pipe through which the divine oil flows. The pipe must not only be golden, but open and flawless, that the oil may have a full, unhindered, unwasted flow.

    The sermon cannot rise in its life-giving forces above the man. Dead men give out dead sermons, and dead sermons kill. Everything depends on the spiritual character of the preacher. Under the Jewish dispensation the high priest had inscribed in jeweled letters on a golden frontlet: “Holiness to the Lord.” So every preacher in Christ’s ministry must be molded into and mastered by this same holy motto. It is a crying shame for the Christian ministry to fall lower in holiness of character and holiness of aim than the Jewish priesthood. Jonathan Edwards said: “I went on with my eager pursuit after more holiness and conformity to Christ. The heaven I desired was a heaven of holiness.”

    Above is an excerpt from E.M Bounds- Power through Prayer Chapter 1(MEN OF PRAYER NEEDED)

    Sincerely looking at the church in Kenya today, It is filled with gimmicks and acrobatics on the pulpit than it is saturated with prayer.

    In replying to a pastor above, I mentioned that it is OK that they be added on the implementation committees- There is no danger in that. But even as they seek to be a part of these committees. Let us ask ourselves Why do we want to be included? Is this what God wants us to do? What part are we to take?

    The saddest part is when in the NO/YES Campaigns, When a certain Bishop went to the extreme of saying “if you vote for YES you will cease to being saved and are on your way to hell.” Sincerely speaking when church leaders get to the point of speaking such words in public and national television; what would they expect those of us that know that the constitution making process has little to do with entering into heaven?

    As much as I love and respect our church leaders, I also take this time to call on them to pray and seek God. It is only as the men of the cloak live truly from their knees that they will have an impact even on governments.

    America as a nation was founded by men of Prayer that their impact has remained for 400 years. As the nation moves away from God by their laws, America is losing out on its power- Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD! Kenya it is a time to learn and listen.

  20. Many of the comments above are a confirmation that we have less than 10 percent christians in Kenya.This country will continue suffering because people do not know who God is. The church leaders have told the people what is right and the peopl have refused.By passing this document with overwhelming majority does not mean that it has the approval of God. No! Kenyans know that it is one way of building your pride before your coming destruction.Just something on paper does not mean anything.The will to implement and the backing of the Almighty is what is required.God doesnt need the majority to do His will; He has the remnant in the land. The majority of us are just Church-Goers and not christians. If they would be christians then they would have believed God and be established and belive His prophets and prosper. The word of God cannot be bend to suit you own things. NO! This country will become prosperous and christian when the citizens will lear to respect the servants of God (11CHRON 20:20). Take it or continue in your pride which will lead you to self-destruction. remnants of the Lord in the land, remain strong and it will be wel with you. AMEN.


Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

Categories

%d bloggers like this: